OT An observation as we start a new decade....

His stance is as Leader of the Opposition - what do you think that means?

I'll give you a clue - look at the bold bit.

 

It's not ideology - it's his job.

 

I agree, I think a lot of the time politicians ferment division unnecessarily. When it comes down to it we have more in common then that which divides us. We’d be better off without any of them tbh.

 

Starmer was the driving force according to something I read the other week....one of the Leave supporting Labour MP's ( I think it was John Trickett) said Starmer had shouted them down persistently and even tried to exclude them from meetings.

 

I think you're better than that, Donny-Red. A knee-jerk opposition to anything the other lot says at the start of their five-year term will get him precisely where, do you think? There is a smarter way to build your standing rather than taking a simplistic view. Thankfully he is on the way out. The problem is if Labour appoint someone from a similarly unelectable faction of the party.

 

It’s not knee jerk. It’s literally his job.

Nearly 60% of the electorate didn’t vote Tory, and it’s Corbyns job to speak for those people.

it really couldn’t be simpler. I do wonder if some people had any idea what happened in the HoC prior to 2 years ago.

again; I don’t like the guy, and I hope we can elect a better leader next time, but attacking him for doing exactly what’s expected of him is a bit lame IMHO.

 

Tbh it doesn’t matter what Starmer thinks it’s not about him it’s about protecting the country from prospectors and carpet baggers that are wanting workers rights exploited by Brexit .
Nobody is arguing about leaving the EU from the labour party’s side but an orderly retreat needs to be reached and that doesn’t include a bonfire of workers rights .

 

Judging the policies you oppose most strongly is the better way to create an image of statesmanship. He looked a total fool over the Salisbury poisonings, but yes - he opposed the notion that Russia was responsible. Labour will not win until it ditches the clowns and dinosaurs.

 

Apart from your insinuation in your first response to my OP that I and others are ignorant of how parliament works which I will let pass, you completely missed the point. Whilst opposition politicians and to some extent a Governments own back benchers, hold Ministers and the PM to account to simply prevent excesses, stating you are going to resist the Conservatives is NOT their job, unless he believes EVERY single policy they put forward is damaging to the country (which is absolute nonsense). Again my point was that it seems that were ideologies collide and the politics have become more polarised, common sense and consensus flies out of the window. JC seems to be proving my point with his statement.

 

Again, I’m not defending him as a leader - and it’s interesting that when I confront you with the facts of his role you fall straight onto personal attack territory.

one of us understands what’s going on here - the other hates Corbyn and thought they’d found a way to attack him.

I’ll clarify once more - his job is to hold the government to account. He would not be doing his job if he supported whatever the government proposed - and that really would be sticking his fingers up to the electorate.

 

Do you want to list the number of bills a leader of the opposition has supported over the last 20 years? (Just so you catch both parties)

let’s be honest - this is about Brexit and people are pissed off at him because in their ignorance they’ve convinced themselves that all politicians are duty bound to ‘get Brexit done’.

it’s frankly beyond ridiculous.

 

come on, we all claim to want someone who actually thinks before he speaks. someone who might want actual proof before we start a war. Your statement above is almost straight from a Facebook meme.

this is what he actually said.

Corbin called the incident “an appalling act of violence”, saying on Wednesday: “Nerve agents are abominable if used in any war. It is utterly reckless to use them in a civilian environment.”

But he left open the possibility – as Theresa May did on Monday – that the nerve agent could have been used by someone else other than the Russian state.

I notice no one remembers Teresa said exactly the same as him.

 

Here’s three words you need to use a little more...
“In my opinion”

Thank me later.

 

Oh sorry
I hadn’t realised everyone except me had felt the need to point out their posts were only opinions.

oops - checked again... they didn’t

Just checked all the other threads - it seems to be quite common to voice an opinion without feeling the need to qualify it.

you’re going to have to get over your error at some point Austin otherwise you’ll look increasingly desperate

 

I think you need to read your posts. You come across as arrogant and condescending, regularly referring to those who disagree with your POV as 'ignorant(IMO) If someone as reasonable as Orsenkaht (among others) feels the need to subtly point out your use of somewhat aggressive confrontation language when posting then there must be something in it.

As for saying that Orsen resort to personal attacks then that is laughable. Just thought I'd throw a few 'facts' (alright opinions) in your direction.

 

Sorry, you’re the one always spouting stats as facts.

I don’t believe you checked all other threads... more lies?

Very touchy today aren’t we?

 

of course people are ignorant if they do not know how Parliament works. And wilfully ignorant if they repeat that once the facts have been pointed out. How would you describe it?

I find it baffling that adults who have taken time to leave the house to vote (presumably many times) have no idea how our parliament works.

And then we get **** storms like this where people pile onto the leader of the opposition for literally doing his job. Simply because media reports are written in a way which leads people to believe there’s something they should get angry about.

Have a read of that post again - attacking Corbyn - no ambiguity there, that’s a personal attack.

In order for you to assume that I’d suggested it was personal against me - you’d have to have not read the post at all.

 

I give up!! Clearly everyone, including myself is wrong, ignorant and not as well versed in the 'ways of the World' as you. simply ignorant and unable to grasp and you are the font of all knowledge.
You and Momentum ( whether you are a member or not) are a perfect match since you appear to be in total denial of the fact that Corbyn and the Labour party in their current form are currently a total irrelevance and, although you have turned a deaf ear, others have pointed out that out. That is not even an opinion since the electorate (obviously not blessed with your intelligence) decisively rejected Labour and Corbyn. Debate is one thing but you dogmatically reject any differing opinions and fail to recognise your own fallibility.

EDIT PS Post 25 supports the point I was making in the OP.

 

Y see this is what I don’t understand:
Call it ignorant, or whatever you like.

you can’t find a single time I’ve ever defended Corbyn, I constantly post that I don’t think he’s a suitable leader.

but because I use facts against attacks on him based on stupidity I must be a member of momentum!

FFS! I’m not defending JC against being a bellend, a bad leader or clearly toxic. But I will defend him for simply doing his ******* job when people make wild accusations.

The reason this is important to me is the creeping influence of the media. If a media story that is literally ‘man has declared he will definitely continue to do the job he’s paid to’ gets turned into an attack on his integrity, intelligence then what else could / are they doing?

but rather than accept that the story that led to you starting this thread is pure manipulation, you dig your heels in and decide that if I disagree then I must be your political enemy.

again - who wins here? Someone is putting a lot of effort into convincing you that politics is a binary right / wrong , us / them scenario. Rather than falling for that, would you be better to start asking ‘why?’

I'm not your enemy, not an enemy of the state or even remotely radical. All I’ve done is try to explain how our democracy works, but because I refuse to be sucked into the same view as you I’m clearly ‘the enemy’.

it’s a sad state of affairs isn’t it?

 

Nope you are just not getting it. JC is NOT doing his job. Orsen made that point clearly and concisely. Opposing everything the Govt put forwardand not 'choosing your battles' is illogical and ineffective. His (JC) intelligence may or may not be under attack but certainly his judgement and political nous has prven time and again that he is not up to the job of leading the opposition. Furthermore, I do not see you as a political "enemy".For someone who claims that there is no shred of evidence that you support Corbyn you seem to go to great lengths to defend him i.e. claiming the news headline is "pure manipulation"!!
It is a quote and the article contains statements from Corbyn himself supporting that so how can it be manipulation unless you are implying they (including the BBC are lying)??
I dont see you as "the enemy" but you have turned my thread which was about 2 party politics being divisive into something else and implying my responses to you were personal.
Anyway you are clearly determined that you are 100% correct in your assertion about the role of an opposition leader so I will leave it there.