OT EVs (I know it is done to death but coming from another angle).....

Yeah my mistake, MaccyDs ain't free, just convenience means my boss plugs in there every time she visits, as she's spending averse, I guess I assumed it was free .
It's just convenience.

 

If you read my reply to SuperTyke, I suggested the main care required was to ensure that the battery is not left at high states of charge or very low states of charge for a long time. Historically, charging regularly to 100% and leaving it there will do more damage to your battery than rapid charging it (to 80%) will. But even that advice relates to NMC batteries using Nickel, and Manganese Cobalt, whereas the next generation of batteries, already found on some Teslas and being introduced into other brands is the LFP battery, which replaces the cobalt with Iron - cheaper to make, more heat tolerant, longer lasting, up to 4 times more cycle life than NMC batteries. No such precaution is needed on these batteries, as Gally suggested and as I indicated in the replies above also.

I indicated in previous replies that, of course, it is kinder to the battery to charge at a lower speed because rapid charging produces excess heat, but this is well looked after by the battery management system. No-one would choose to rapid charge if they can fast charge instead at home, not least because it is more expensive to do so. But you make it sound like rapid charging is going to kill the battery stone dead, but this is just nonsense and one of the many EV myths that are everywhere on the internet. Many studies have shown that, whilst batteries that have predominantly been rapid charged show further degradation over those charged at 7kw, the difference is remarkably small over an extended period of time. Therefore, users who need to rapid charge most of the time because they don't have home charging facilities don't need to fret that they are killing their car. Its not the case. And for the rest of us, well I rapid charge about once or twice a month on average - the rest of the time I am charging at home.

See this one for example..

Is fast charging bad for your EV battery? (thenextweb.com)

This kind of illustrates that it is not a big deal but this study is pretty old now. It was done on 2012 Leaf cars which in EV terms is ancient tech. Those cars do not have the kind of advanced liquid cooling systems for the battery that are ubiquitous now on all modern cars. They therefore suffered quite bad degredation which you don't see these days. Nevertheless, despite their lack of active battery cooling, the difference between the loss of capacity on those rapid charged, compared to those charged slower, after nearly 90k miles, is 4%. More modern cars will do a lot better than that and LFP batteries will do even better than that. It is pretty easy to test the state of health of a battery using an OBD2 dongle and I have seen many users report near zero degredation of their battery.

You clearly are not willing to switch to EV right now - that's fine, no-one will be forced. In this country you can buy a new petrol in 2029 if you want and keep it 20 years. But some of your concerns are wide of the mark.

 

Not judging, you can spend your money on whatever you want but I just can’t imagine dropping £500+ a month on a car. That’s verging towards mortgage territory. I honestly had no idea that people did that.

 

It crossed my mind...not only is it a mortgage, you never own the car...just renting it.

 

What?! When it said total cost of ownership I thought it meant that they keep it at the end. £30,000 over 3 years and you have to hand the car back? I couldn’t physically do it, even if I was a millionaire. Each to their own though, I don’t earn their money and I don’t get to spend it for them.

 

When the fi

When they first fetched leasing in my old man looked at it at DC Cook's... he asked the salesman... what happens at the end of the 3yr period?
The young man said... no problem sir, just bring the car back to us and leave the keys on the desk.
I could see the cogs going round in my dads head... he said " so what do I do... go home on the f****ng bus?"

 

Not for me. Renting sounds like madness.

Mind you, I keep a car for years and years. I never buy new, usually it's a couple of years old. I paid around £10k for my Polo, pretty much 10 years ago. So it's cost me £83 a month.

I like my car, it gets me from A to B, it plays music, it has a decent heater. But that's about as much interest as I have in it. My emotional attachment to my car is only slightly higher than my attachment to my washing machine. As @JamDrop says, each to their own, but I can't even begin to imagine pissing away £500 a month on something that will only get me to the same places, play the same songs, and keep me at the same temperature.

 

My last car was a gem, I bought it in 2009 for £800... Hyundai Amica 2000 plate, 23,000 miles one owner, full service history... I did 65,000 miles in it... it never went wrong apart from a £35 rubber mounting, I sold it in 2018 to a good friend for £300, its still running around now.

 

Can't believe you did that when you could have rented something for £500 a month. You must be barmy.

 

Fair play to you. I can fully understand that way of thinking. Both my parents died in their 50s and I've thought on more than one occasion that they might have lived it up a bit more if only they'd known what fate had in store for them. As it was, they saved for a retirement that never happened.

 

I don't have a problem with DSLRed, Gally Marcor any of the p osters on here who have bought or leased an EV. Why should I ? It is their choice.

What I DO have problem with is when people post on here like Marc trying to convince us that it is more cost effective or at least no more expensive than ICE vehicles. Utter nonsense.
Fair dos if you want and can afford an EV and are doing your bit for the environment but don't try convincing anyone but yourself that it makes financial sense. Like I said it makes NO sense for private users. The figures don't lie! (see below). Anyone justifying EV as a private buyer /renter for financial reasons is delusional.

In 2012 just after retiring I bought a brand new Yeti 2.0 TDi 4x4 Elegance, hi spec with extras leather seats , rough road kit etc. I bought a 4x4 due to the hilly and mountainous terrain lots of hairpins on roads we were moving to here in Italy and the fact we got stranded in snow and ice the previous February with our FWD Octavia Estate). I got a really good deal and paid £20k with a view to running it into the ground and it would probably 'see me out' or at least until I considered myself no longer fit to drive. 10 years on and with admittedly low mileage ( odometer show around 52k miles) it is still worth (even here being RHD) around £5k .
It still drives like new, is extremely comfortable and has been 100% reliable (notwithstanding a bit of kerfuffle with recalls for the 'Diesel gate' issue). Diesels are generally good for at least 200K minimum anyway In spite of that I do not consider myself to be a serious polluter since we do little mileage and I only plan to do do the very occasional drive across Europe to the UK.
L living in the rural countryside we prefer City breaks so the trains are best as you end up in the Heart of the cities like Rome, Verona, Ravenna, Napoli Milan and Turin. Trains are cheaper anyway for two and parking is free at most stations.
Anyway, I digress. My point is that 10 years of motoring has cost me £125 per month capital cost.

For equivalence with an EV now If I allow for the 20% overall inflation since 2012 if bought in 2022) it is £160pm (If it lasts another 5 years it will still probably be worth a couple of thousand so will have cost £135 per month capital cost) not even close nowhere near the £600pm minimum I would have to pay to get the equivalent EV spec on lease. I could even stand the cost of a major repair (Catalytic Converter, engine costing 2k or 3k and it still only comes out at an additional £25pm

Even allowing for zero inflation lease packages over 10 year on an EV would be £72000!!! that I would have spent (excluding the cost of electricity) .
Allowing for Insurance, tax, servicing, fuel, wiper blades, and a new set of Premium tyres, my ICE comes to around £120 per month over 10 years (inflation adjusted)-

So in total £280 per month all in or £33600. An extra £38400 for EV. Even tripling my mileage would have come nowhere near that cost for fuel etc.

 

I reckon I spend £500 a month on curries...

 

I had a look a few months ago for a new vehicle and i'd say loosely that EV prices of the things I was looking at seemed to be around 20-25% more than their traditional equivalent. I'm sure there are some comparisons which are more, I suspect there may be some vehicles which have deals which make that price contrast less.

But I think the trade off is that you save hugely on the fuelling and maintenance over the lifetime of the vehicle, and I'd hope that eventually vehicles are owned much longer. One of the issues we have is huge turnover of items compared to make do and mend. That shift alone uses more raw materials, floors more trees, disperses more emissions and consumes much more energy.

The majority of EV's I've seen in and around the local area are SUV's and premium brands. So it's evident we're not at a point where cost is the major factor in changing. The same with heat pumps. Up front costs are difficult and prohibitive, and even more so at the moment. But there are bigger gains over time to be had.

It's a pity that a government that alleged to care about the environment and was doing everything it could, couldn't come up with a structure to facilitate change, especially for those who need assistance to do so.

 

Genuinely not a clue! I hadn’t thought about company car/allowances either as that’s a different world to state schools. I was imagining maybe £200 max? Although, as I buy (second hand) outright I didn’t have any idea about monthly amounts at all.

 

A few weeks ago I was speaking to an engineer who made gear boxes for formula one cars (he was part of Renault team)....his company now does "e racing" and other bits n pieces for racing cars.
Because an absolute novice at all this stuff, I asked him what his thoughts were on electric cars for domestic use. He told me if you were leasing at say 3 year intervals it was definitely the way to go, as cars have or are moving away from mechanics (engines) however, his opinion was that hydrogen cars were far superior to electric in every way but of course needed the infrastructure.
When I had time I Google them to find there were only 2 cars available!
I was then talking to 2 other mechanics who agreed with the engineer.....never heard of them myself but just wanted to chuck this in to the discussion.

 

My Mazda 2 cost £6k about 11 years ago. At the time it was 3 years old and had done about 15k miles. It’s needed new tyres twice, a pair of shocks and a new sump tray. As we repair it ourselves it’s cost a few hundred, excepting the tyres. It still gets through MOTs without so much as an advisory. It’s been the best bargain ever! It has started to eat oil in the last year though.