Over reaction everytime

i bet theres 8 fa cups between them lol

 

No over reaction from me but only because I accept we aren't that good at international level anymore. Other nations have caught up and surpassed us. We all need to accept we ain't a powerhouse anymore, we are firmly in tier 2. We will qualify still IMO due to our home games but we are nowhere near being a potential winner.

 

If only all managers used the same rationale as you do Hemsy for choosing a good footballer. You'd have the example of a manager favouring Phil Neville over Diego Maradona because he'd won more league titles and European Cups.

 

No doubt about the fact that this England team is poor and has been for a number of years in reality. There are no real world class players that can perform consistantly and at the top of their game for a prolonged period. Some players are being picked purely because of the clubs they play for and not the amount of ability they have (to perform). Also there is the arguement that some of the players are superb for their club but have never achieved the same heights at international level, guys like Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney et al have done it for years for club but very rarely for country.

The style of football we play isn't great. Most games are Keith Hill esq with this slow 'tip, tap, tip, tap' passing around at the back. You don't see Holland, Argentina, Portugal, Germany, Brazil etc doing that. They win games by moving the ball quickly and attacking teams with purpose.

The arguement that 'I bet there is 8 FA Cups between them' isn't great either in reality is it?

Stanley Matthews (1 FA Cup)
Gary Lineker (1 FA Cup)
Alan Shearer (1 Premier League)
Gordon Banks (2 League Cups)
Bobby Moore (1 FA Cup)

..........

Phil Neville (6 Premier Leagues, 3 FA Cups, 1 Champions League)

 

Over Reaction?! load of crap, we shouldnt be settling for a draw against Montenegro, with all due respect although they have 3 or 4 decent players, they are nothing special as a team, they were awful at the back. Gerrard gave the ball away far too often in the second half, Carrick offered nothing going forward, and cleverley for what ever reason faded poorly in the second half. As someone mentioned earlier Montenegro are not by any means a force in World football and never will be, my fear is that until something changes with our structure neither will we.
We decided to play a full back who is totally inept at defending (johnson), a winger (milner) who just simply isn't good enough and a left back that for me although he has been great over the years for club and country just wasn't good enough last night.
Should have been Baines, Walker, and any one else but milner.

 

The difference is that Spain have a legitimate expectation to walk qualification, what with winning the past two Euros and the World Cup. What do we have in our recent history to support the repeated assertions that England are a top team? Sweet FA, if you'll pardon the pun.

We think that because we have The Best League In The World (TM) we are automatically a top side. This is entirely in ignorance of the reality that the league is built largely around imported players and a Premier League XI would contain very few England nationals. Any English player who is half good is hyped to the point of no return by the time they are 21/22 and is sat on a fat salary with everyone telling them the sun shines out of their ar*e. There is a delusional culture of self-satisfied complacency that runs right through the upper echelons of the English game. We need to wake up and realise that unless something changes we will continue to be perpetual quarter-finalists and nothing more.

You can argue the media have overreacted, but this overreaction only happens because we feel we have a divine right to be a top international team despite there being nothing in our recent history to support this.

 

That. And only that.

 

Mansfield_red
I agree with all of that, but, we still have enough talent at the minute to finish games like last night off before half time. 1-0 wasnt and isnt acceptable against what was a woeful 1st half montenegro performance, even in the second half we showed no desire to push on and extend the lead.

 

If we ever won anything or even got close to winning anything our press might be a bit more forgiving of our overpaid superstars who constantly flatter to deceive and show us time and time again how they simply are not as good as they want us to think they are.

 

In my opinion they need to make almost a clean break and start to build a team for the future.

Hart
Baines
Walker
Cleverley
Sturridge
Welbeck
Wilshire
Smalling
Carroll
Walcott
Oxlay Chamberlin

These are a few of the players that I think have proved they have possibilities. World class ? far from it at the moment but they have the potential.

So add in Rooney and maybe another experienced head, choose a style of play and pick the best young English player to play in the position they play for their club... even if that club is Wigan, Bolton etc

Now the difficult bits... convince the English public that this philosophy is a means to an end... we will not suddenly become European or World champions overnight. The results may not be seen for ten years. In 2000 we were ***** and so were the Germans. They did something about it we didn't. They are on the cusp again of being a world power whereas...

There's also the 'young english player' premium where the next big thing is hoicked around by their agent at prices that make foreign players look a steal. Don't know what to do about that one though...

Well that's the ramblings of an ageing chap, thanks for reading

Dave

 

The fact is that England never have been and for the forseeable future won't be good enough to compete for major honours on foreign soil. The players and the set up of English football are just not good enough to deliver major tournament wins in international football.

 

ive been reading these post and just wanted to weigh in.

Montenegro, went a full year last year undeafeated at home. There players are technictly as good if not better than the england players.Most of them player in top european sides.

I couldnt watch the game so was listening on the radio, In the first half yes England were the better side and were cheated out of a penalty by the ref,since seen the incident stonewall pen.

Second half Montenegro did what they should have done in the first half,they moved there star player Vucinic up top instead of leaving him out wide.

England were already set up to cope with this but, Jolean Lescott should not be in the team,he cant get in his club side.

Joe Hart is not the best goalkeeper we have and nearly cost us with the fumble that went through his legs. Only in side because of who he plays for.

Welbeck and Rooney understand why Roy plays them together as they do well for club, But when the ball needed holding up second half Welbeck cant do that.Hes not that type of player.

Glen Johnston and Steven Gerrard Johnston cant defend and Gerrard no longer International class.

England set up not to lose so mission accomplished. But with a little more gile and a bit of luck they would have won the game.

 

Ha, that's how they did it. Sacked the Montenegro manager at half time and brought in the Macedonian one!

Can't trust these Balkan countries.

Yours in Pedantry
Border Terrier

 

It's ok, I was getting them mixed up last night as well think Hristov had played for them! All the same these foreign types!

 

Why should they, this had no influence at all on the Montenegro versus England match that I could see.

 

The truth is England just aren't that good, this is easily the worst England squad I've seen since I started following football in the mid 90's.

However we should've still won comfortably, Montenegro's got a few decent players from Serie A but in reality most of their side play at a similar level to the championship.

I noticed Robbie Fowler tweeting about the game last night, it made me think how few caps he got & how many he'd get if he was around nowadays.

He'd walk into the England side ahead of the likes of Welbeck, Defoe, Crouch & Sturridge.

Look at our centre backs, 7 / 8 years ago we had Campbell, Rio, Terry, Carragher & Woodgate. Now our best defender's probably Jagielka. Gerrard & Rooney are probably our best players but Gerrards past his best & Rooney's rarely delivered in an England shirt, add to that the future is supposedly Wilshere, a player who can't stay fit & it's clear we're going nowhere.

 

Beats me

how anybody can react to any kind of England performance they've been underperforming for so long. They have been developing the next youngsters since 1966 and failing. Far too many talented players have come and gone and blown it over the years. Suppose Roy Hodgson might succeed through sheer boredom, a lots been made about how the opposition upped their game after half time, but that equaliser had been coming a long time and England simply did not react soon enough.