Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine.

It's a bit of a sh**storm in Germany, their problem seems to be that too few people are volunteering for the vaccine.

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-vaccination-triggers-hope-and-skepticism-in-germany/a-56073243

 

I also would be interested where they got this from as Jonathan Van Tam said they wouldn't be in the press conference the other day.

 

When you say "There is evidence the Oxford vaccine works where does are 12 weeks apart " I understood that the initial jab the one giving the most protection and the subsequent one is a belt and braces top up providing a small addition level of protection. So given the scale of the task of immunising a population there is an argument for innoculating more people initially (see my previous post with the 'life raft' analogy.
As I have said before we are fighting an unpredictable non-human enemy. Regardless of who is in charge decisions are therefore reactive NOT pro-active. Constant criticism from media and social media using emotive words like U-turns based on hindsight (critricism not confined to the UK populace incidentally) are not justified. Decisions made at the time When there is still so much to learn often turn out to be wrong and the authorities react and change tack. They are either criticised for being intransigent or indecisive by people who only think they know better. Easy to criticise after the fact especially when you don't have to make the difficult decisions. Also much 'sh*t stirring' comes from people with an agenda (again people with no power and not responsibility for managing the crisis)
I know the opinions on this BB are coloured by the Labour centric nature of it but honestly, the levels of cynicism and anger displayed on here (on many subjects) is getting more extreme by the day. Look beyond our shores and you will nearly every other Govt. being accused of incompetence and indecision. They are all in the same quandary. Italy yesterday had only vaccinated about 14k people and there have been delays in distributing the vaccine in Europe so UK is actually ahead of the curve.

 

Guess I’ll find it out 12 weeks. Was meant to have my 2nd dose on the 28th this month. Which was already over the 21 day period.

I’m part of a clinical trial I never signed up for now!

 

It isn't none precedented. There have been pandemics in the last 20 years, quite a few actually.
Nor is it's behaviour unprecedented. It spreads in pretty much the same way that influenza which we see spike every single year does.

 

Interesting in America that the majority of those in danger of Covid would still prefer to not take a vaccine....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ealth-workers-refusing-COVID-19-vaccines.html

 

Utter nonsense... I must have slept through the last 20 years then.
'Worldwide pandemics' not to be confused with epidemics. The nearest we got was the Swine flu pandemic 2009 but the numbers of fatalities that caused is dwarfed by the Cornavirus.

Comparing it to flu is also ridiculous since we have had vaccination programmes for years.

 

If there was a pandemic 11 years ago could you explain how it's unprecedented?

 

Do you seriously believe that the government is acting against the scientific advice it’s received? This has come from the JVCI and SAGE. If you want to understand the science then listen to the four UK CMOs and read the JVCI’s statement.

The Pfizer trials are based on jabs 3 weeks apart, but there’s plenty of scientific evidence from similar vaccination programmes. So when they say there’s “no evidence” it’s because it’s not something that was specifically tested as part of the Pfizer trial. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t work though, and the view of the best epidemiologists we have is that it will work just as well (if not better).

I seriously don’t understand the outrage about giving as many people the vaccine as possible as soon as possible. Surely it makes more sense to have 10 million with 90% protection (the protection given by one Pfizer dose) than 5 million with 95% protection? Particularly when we’re talking about the additional people that would be vaccinated being over 75.

Even if ultimately the vaccination programme is less effective because of the delay, this is a far better outcome.

 

The mixing of vaccines is something that epidemiologists have been looking at for a while. Listen to Sarah Gilbert if you want a better understanding. For example, they’re considering mixing it with the Russian vaccine as part of a further trial because this is expected to produce better results.

 

We could do far better scaling up production and speeding up jabs but we aren't as bad as others.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cine-makers-says-bloc-slow-secure-stocks.html

 

Yes, the Government has to be reactive. Like they could’ve reacted to the CMO saying we’d reached the limits of what we could open up, before schools and universities opened back up without any interventions. Or when SAGE asked for a circuit breaker in September, only to be ignored. Or when the CMO said the original tier 3 restrictions wouldn’t bring infection rates, so they didn’t do anything.

Maybe they could start reacting...

 

You are enigmatic. You flip between showing signs of intelligence and the ability to comprehend basic english.

The SCALE of this pandemic IS unprecedented, since the 2009 one I refer to was swine flu and, as I stated had nothing like the impact Worldwide that Covid 19 is having (84million cases and 2.8 million deaths and rising)

The 2009 H1N1 flu pandemic is estimated to have actually caused about 284,000 (range from 150,000 to 575,000) deaths.. A follow-up study done in September 2010 showed that the risk of serious illness resulting from the 2009 H1N1 flu was no higher than that of the yearly seasonal flu. For comparison, the WHO estimates that 250,000 to 500,000 people die of seasonal flu annually..

Therefore to re-iterate. No Governments have collectively seen anything in relatively modern times requiring a co-ordinated approach Wordwide on this scale. Unprecedented!

I am waiting to hear your evidence for the bold statement you made i.e. "quite a few of pandemics in the last 20 years" but suspect it wont be forthcoming as even when presented with the evidence like that above ( from reputable sources like WHO) you will continue to argue 'black is white'.

 

Ok I will give you that, I was thinking of epidemics rather than pandemics. There have been many national epidemics in the last 20 to years that shoulduld have been learnt from.

As someone living in the UK, governed by the UK and living with the results of disastrous decisions made by the government of the UK I honestly do not care about, or believe there even is, a coordinated approach to covid-19. Even the vaccination development wasn't coordinated really was it, it was a LOT of separate companies, organisations and countries trying to develop a vaccine. Not together as one but separately.

I live under Boris Johnson"s government and that government has failed at every possible opportunity. That Government has been reactive rather than proactive and has completely failed to use any ounce of common sense with regards to forethought and planning. I do not care one bit about whether the government in Italy has failed as badly or not as I do not live under their rule. I do live under boris' sadly and it is nothing short of a shambles.

To give an example of that. It appears to have come as an absolute shock to bozo that a virus spreads faster in winter. It took him completely by surprise and he had to backtrack quickly.
Another? It came as a complete surprise to Boris that care homes were places that it spreads most. Who knew? Well everyone else.

Boris Johnsons handling of this virus has been shambolic and shameful and no amount of waffle will change that.

 

The point you’ve made multiple times is that the government is ignoring the scientists. However, it is not the job of government to assess all of the different points of view put forward by different scientists and then choose the best dosing strategy.

It is LITERALLY the job of SAGE to peer review all of the available evidence (including those with opposing views) and recommend an approach to government. That has happened here. SAGE has taken into account all of the benefits and potential drawbacks of the revised dosing strategy, suggested an approach to government, and government has accepted that approach.

Armchair epidemiology is exactly how misinformation spreads and erodes confidence in the vaccination programme. If you make out that it is the government that is making these decisions and not those who are qualified to do then it undermines the vaccination effort. In direct response to your posts you get numpties that post:

“No science, just desperation and incompetence”
“There is no science, these lovely people are making it up as they go along again. Maybe they've got hedge fund bets on getting to 100000 covid deaths?”

 

Or Chevettes....

 

True, there's another one cracking off at the moment, it's called socordia imperium.