Patience

Like.

 

Ronnie Glavin is extremely wise.

 

It's a good job you weren't born in Lincoln or some other place with a club that have no success at all and languish at the foot of English football.

 

They can't have it all

 

Good post RR. Sums up what supporting a club like ours is all about.

I wasn't born in barnsley though, never lived there, I still have that burning passion for the club though. And I feel I've been brought up on barnsley values (my dad) and similar from my mum (wakey).

 

???

 

Tingley towns the place to be.

 

Trust in who? Wishing LJ the best, as we all ought to do, does not need trust. He gets support from we the paying loyals.

Faith? Discern that from loyalty.

Patience. I've done that one in an earlier post. And if it doesn't imply something good will happen, then all it means is "wait".

So we're back to loyalty.

 

It is the same in sport as it is in life. A supporter is one who supports, often financially. You would quite happily agree with that description if I were to relate it to your wife and family. The supporter of a football club, particularly a football club operating below the Premier League has a larger number of supporters, but for all that, it relies upon them just as much as your wife and family rely upon you for financial support. The worst thing that you could do to your wife and family is to withdraw your financial support, and it is the same for your football club.

As for the rest, we are all merely observers from the side lines. Whether it be chants, songs and shouts from the terraces, or comments on the digital media, it is all just a commentary on the actions and decisions of others. Just noise in the background. Supporters are all powerless to influence events unless a significant number of them are prepared to take the ultimate step, and withdraw their support. That is, they stop going to games. You may be prepared to do this in order to seek to get your own way. I am not prepared to do so, because I am not as convinced as you appear to be that I am right about how to put things right.

Other than withdrawal of financial support, the only other thing that a supporter can do is BE PATIENT. As I have said above, all the rest is simply background noise. By all means, have your moan, discuss what should be done, tell everyone in charge that they are hopeless, but do not confuse all of your noise with the constructive actions of anyone who is actually likely to make a positive difference.

I hope that you do not think that my attempts at an explanation of my position patronise you. There is certainly no intention on my part.

 

Whilst I agree with much of what you post, in particular your plea for patience, there is one thing in your most recent post where I believe you are wrong.
"Supporters are powerless to influence events".
5000 at Oakwell versus a crowd of 20000 for, say, a local derby. That changes things . The support from fans lifts performances. Encouragement from the terraces, sorry....seats, will always inspire the players to go the extra yard. Support and encouragement. It makes a difference. Just like nobody turning up and withdrawing their support makes a difference.
Your contributions to this forum are amongst the best reads. However you should never lose sight of the emotion which goes hand in hand with the game.
Supporters do make a difference. Set whatever tactics you like (extra lines or not), pontificate forever about square pegs and round holes, explain the salary cap rules in detail, etc etc..........it all pales into insignificance without the fans.
We are not background noise. The day that becomes the case is the day we might as well all go home.

 

I fully agree. And others have the right to counter others criticisms with an alternative view. It's what forums are for. I think there is a lot of healthy debate and some balanced discussions. Interestingly everyone thinks we were rubbish yesterday, including me so that point isn't in question or a divide.

 

Very good point. fans do make a difference I fully believe that. When they support and get behind their team they can help a team win. When they boo and decry individuals in the game they can help a team lose. We have to choose which we are, whether we are 500, 5000 or 20,000. We will come up against teams with more and also with less supporters at games, but how they channel their energy is what counts.

 

I bet tha was telling everyone it was a double mattress when in truth it was only a single

 

It could has been worse

Could have hooked a Tumble Dryer

 

The events that I was referring to in my post are the off the field events conducted by the management team of the football club. The sacking of the manager, the signing of players, investment by Mr Cryne. All of these are examples of decisions that supporters can only influence if they are prepared to withdraw their support. If they are prepared to exert financial pressure. If supporters do not use financial pressure, everything else is just noise. Indeed they are examples of decisions that have been influenced in the past by supporters withdrawing their support. The question is, did the board make good decisions as a result of the pressure that was exerted by supporters.

I am very grateful to Mr Cryne and his family and for the investment that they made to save the club and put it back on its feet. That part of his investment was without doubt a worthwhile one. It took us back to the second tier of football, a position that many believe is our right. However, his investment since then along with his management of the club has been erratic. At times there has been heavy investment, at times nothing. Some managers lived in a land of plenty, and some in poverty. Supporters judge only on results, and most of the time, they judge only the team manager. So managers were sacked, even though the owner and the commercial management would know that results were not the only story. They subcontracted their decision-making to the supporters. But they did not subcontract the decision to the loyal supporters, the majority, those that are willing to stand by the club through thick and through thin. No they subcontracted the decision to those supporters who were willing to withdraw their support. Those who are happy to stop attending games if they do not like what they see, and it is this element of the game that really ticks me off. As a result, one manager after another was sacked, and the owners investments were wasted. Can there be any better illustration that supporters are entirely the wrong people to subcontract these decisions to.

I read much more than I post. Much of what I read leaves me shaking my head, not in disbelief, because I know the mind of the average fan, but in despair that so little has been learned by so many from a lifetime of watching the game. I cannot believe that anyone in a position of power within the club would take any notice of it, including my own inadequate ramblings. In that sense, everything written on the BBS is just background noise, a safety valve in the case of a defeat or a place to share elation in the case of a win. What it should not be, it should not be a place where club policy is formed or where decision-makers opinions are formed.

There has been evidence of late that more care is being taken in the recruitment of players, and that can only be good for the long term future of the football club. There is evidence that a viable policy has taken shape and that decisions are being taken, not on the hook, but in line with that policy. This means that fewer mistakes will be made, but it also means that it may take longer to recruit the right individuals, so supporters must be patient. We all want to see our team play in the second tier of football, but there is no point getting there with a team that is not ready. It will result only in a rapid return to the lower league. We must therefore build from solid foundations, and this too will take time. There is evidence that the management team understand the lessons from our past, and that they have learned from them. There is evidence that our new young manager is building on solid foundations. There will always be pressure from the supporters who want everything today. The current management of the club will be judged on how able they are at resisting this pressure, and on how many of the decisions that they make are their own.

Some of the noise that the fans make is a good thing, as you rightly point out, but much of the noise away from the stadium is not and it is the job of the management team at Oakwell to refuse to make decisions on the basis of it.

 

There will only be building if we can hold onto the better players or have ready made alternatives to replace those we inevitably lose

In some respects unless you can manage the first trick you only build for a season...

 

I understand your point, and I made a similar point myself the other day.

However, Barnsley always has been, and always will be a selling club. Indeed, there is evidence that almost every club in the world is a selling club. Transfer fees help to recirculate the money in football from the rich clubs, down the football structure to the poor clubs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this process. However, football is owned by the players. The more talent a player possesses, the more he and his agent are able to control their own destiny, often against the wishes of their current employer. The more talent a player possesses, the more money he is paid and the more money that player removes from the process of circulating money through the system.

The TV money has been bad for the game because it has created so much inequality that it has distorted competition, particularly in the second tier where the fight for a place at the top table takes place at its most intense. It has also created so much inequality in player wages between the earnings available in the top division and those in our league that it has become almost morally wrong to try to deny a player his chance to access that pot of gold. In the current environment, all a club can do is to try to sell the player to his next employer for more than they think that he is worth and try to invest the proceeds of that sale as wisely as they can.

 

There will only be building if we can hold onto the better players or have ready made alternatives to replace those we inevitably lose

In some respects unless you can manage the first trick you only build for a season...

 

You said that 5 hours ago. Is the site working slowly for you?