Plug in Hybrid

A lot of people will never have owned a car that's not at least 10 years old. Time will tell but the transition period could be very hard on some people. I'm not against it in any way, wouldn't buy one currently but in time when the infrastructure and technology has improved then I guess I would.

 

I have a Toyota CHR Hybrid.

Never will I go back to full petrol

 

I get that completely. And people focus on the price of new cars being out of reach. Which they are. But they will age and naturally become the choice for the second hand market as they get to the age that people can afford to buy them.

And one things for sure, In 10 years time, if I was in the market for a 10 year old car that was built around 2022, I would be vastly more confident that a 10 year old battery will not provide me with a big repair bill than I would a 10 year old engine or all the bits that go with one, with their 2000 moving parts.

 

I've just got a new Corsa e, its only a month old but i'd struggle to go back to diesel/petrol. Plugged it in the other day and from 60 mile to full, 220, it cost just under a tenner. It'll be great once E.on Next bring back their Drive tarrif cause it'll only cost me £5/6 to fill it up so to speak. I've roughly done 700 mile and it's cost £35 so i'm guessing from my last 2 cars that did about 350 a tank and would now cost around £80/100 to fill up then 2 fills would be around £160/200 so in the scheme of things that's good.

 

Nice cars. Decent range, quite fast charging as well. And not too bad price wise, relatively speaking.

 

I wanted the Peugeot e208 but the base model was dearer to rent than the top of the range Corsa and they are the same car anyway. It wouldn't necessarily be my first choice but as a step into the electric world it's good. Apart from not having self park it's got everything else you can think of. I don't go far so 220 miles is good enough for me and you can use the fast chargers. It's also very nippy and fun to drive

 

Well, that's not exactly true.

We do burn gas to create electricity but we do other things too

https://grid.iamkate.com/

As of writing we were creating 43% of electricity using gas, 28% using pure renewables and 25% using other "renewables" (nuclear, biomass etc).

 

Also, renewables are pushing up and up.

There's an island in Orkney that has a single community owned wind turbine. It generates so much electricity in most months that it provides for the whole island and then puts electricity back in to the grid, thus earning it's keep.

But...

In the winter months it generates too much energy it would overload the grid, so they then use it to run a hydrogen conversion process, creating fuel for the islands buses and soon the ferry and hopefully in the future to power the short distance island hopping air service they run.

Now that is awesome.

 

One issue with these cars is they are far too quiet, quieter than a push bike. Was consideration given to the hard of hearing/visually impaired for example when they developed them?

 

I know it's a week old thread, but I just watched this video that popped up in my YT feed from one of my favourite automotive presenters, so thought it be might be useful to post.



He always gives both sides of the picture in a clear understandable way. Worth a watch

 

Thanks mate

 

On the subject of electric cars, MG have had to pull their promisingly affordable electric cars from sale due to demand wildly outstripping supply

 

If they brought the MG Marvel R to the UK, I'd be tempted. Looks very nice.

 

A number of reason NOT to go hybrid. They are , contrary to those manufacturers sales pitch, NOT environmentally friendly.

In fact Switzerland have abolished subsidies for them after extensive research showing the lifecycle of the car... manufacture, use, disposal ... is far more damaging to the planet other personal transport. Hauling batteries around, and the relatively paltry mileage you get running as EV in no way compensates for the capital outlay that is far higher than the equivalent ICE. Many hybrids mileage figures are highly unimpressive and inferior to many ICE cars. This is not my opinion, but a fact proven from various data arising from research carried out by various bodies.

Hybrids are a short term fix to enable manufacturers and Governments to promote EV and introduce an earlier date to ban new ICE cars far earlier than it should due to the time that the support infrastructure will be present for the full switch to EV.

Also, stating ICE is ancient technology, as someone has posted is a bit disingenuous . Fossil fuel based power sources be they diesel or petrol using 'suck, push, bang, blow' cycle to generate movement may be Victorian in origin but a modern engine is as far removed from the original concept as a modern cruise ship is from a steam powered Victorian paddle steamer.
I did look at getting a hybrid, but the more I read, the more I realised they are a scam.
Whilst, as some on here know, I am an EV sceptic when it comes to the practicalities of an EV for all, certainly in the current planned timeframes, but that is only my opinion.

The promotion of hybrids (HEV or PHEV) as environmentally better than ICE is misleading. That not an opinion, but borne out by the facts.

 

I read a scientific paper about the battery degradation. Not being a scientist, but have a rudimentary knowledge of electrical theory (ONC) I did, nevertheless glean the main following points.
The loss of range is not linear. The main degradation occurs in the first two years then the rate of decline slows dramatically.
Most batteries will have a useful life in excess of 12-15 years.
Constant high/ultra speed charging will reduce the range/life of a battery.
Charging routine also impact on long term range/life of batteries. Little and often ( 4-7Kwh home charging seems to be optimal but between 20-80%) Fully charging whilst giving maximum range will reduce battery life.

Of course, as technology improves, many of these limitations will be overcome but there will be constraints based on the laws of physics.

Even as a EV cynic, and as some EV fans have stated , battery longevity should not be a worry for 99% of EV owners. The 2nd hand market will still enable people to buy EVs as long as they are fully aware that the range from new will probably be down to about 70% once a car is 4 or 5 years old but should remain that way for quite a few years after that will only minor loss. The only concern is how well the battery has been looked after by the previous owner re above points but I suppose that applies to any vehicle EV, Hybrid or ICE (engine gearbox)

 

For once, on the subject of electrification, we broadly agree. On the conclusion at any rate. I think PHEVs are an increasingly irrelevant compromise.

Personally, I don't see any rational reason why PHEVs will be allowed for sale for another 5 years after pure ICE gets banned in 2030. I would stop them both at the same time. All that will happen is that people who are still diametrically opposed to EVs will buy a PHEV and never charge it. It will therefore be an ICE.

In lots of cases, particularly with the SUVs, the PHEV option is so price inflated over the ICE that it is bang in the middle of the price range of some really good EV options. I don't know why people wouldn't just get an EV in those cases. Kia Sportage PHEV, for example, vs Kia Niro EV

 

Yes 100% agree, I was involved in decisions by VW regarding the warranty criteria for EV batteries a few years ago. Most manufacturers offer a similar warranty which guarantees the battery wont drop below 70% within eight years or 100k miles, whichever comes first.

The batteries cost a fortune (in excess of £10k even for the smaller ones) but I believe a number of aftermarket warranty/insurance companies are offering battery cover for extra peace of mind.
I also understand that most major manufacturers will be offering extended warranty eventually.

The used/breakers market will be brisk too I suggest.

 

A lot of the detail you put there is right, apart from the suggestion that people buying a 4-5 year old car will probably be down to about 70% of capacity. It should be nowhere near that. More like 90%. If it were 70% after 5 years then it would be liable for a swap out under warranty.

In many cases, it will be more than 90%. Battery management systems are getting better all the time and many users are reporting no loss of capacity after many thousands of miles. One of the things that the BMS does is manage a top and bottom buffer, so the battery is never actually 100% full when reported as full, or totally empty when reported as empty. Generally, the buffer is 2-3% at both ends.

One thing that I think will become common is for retailers to use dongles plugged into the car to be able to prove the battery state of health, or for the reporting if it to become a routine part of the service report, so buyers can buy second hand with confidence.

 

I wouldn't be able to give an answer from experience on the 400 mile trip, but logically and anecdotally, I would expect it to be far worse than 50mpg. It's basically a petrol engine with a couple of heavy bodies in the boot.