Plug in Hybrid

I wouldn't call 28 grand 'promisingly affordable'

 

You might do in a years time when they have gone up. Kia added 2.5k to the price of the EV6 yesterday and the new Niro goes up 1.5k on 1 July.

 

The research I read suggested around 20% loss of range over the first 2-3 years after which the loss becomes negligable for the next several years (which I admit did sound rather high attrition rate so early in its lifespan). There were all sorts of technical reason I did not fully understand.

What did leap out at me though was the statement (backed up by other sources) that to protect battery life you should keep batteries between 20% and 80% , in other words, not fully charge them and certainly avoid frequent high speed charging.
That makes a mockery of range figures (already a bit optimistic IMO) by manufacturers which work on full charge.
When buying second hand it is essential to get a full report on the battery condition (the technical equipment required to analyse this, I believe is now available).
Personally I think it should be mandated by Govt that dealerships and 2nd hand sources should display the battery condition status when advertising or display on the windscreen. it should be possible for people selling privately to obtain a report along the lines of an MoT to protect potential buyers. After all two identical vehicles with similar actual mileages could be 'miles apart' -pun intended - in terms of battery condition. After all, someone who regularly travels long distances and uses rapid charging frequently is likely to have a vehicle where the battery is not in as good condition at resale as someone who charges infrequently at level 2 and never to 100%. It also means a well maintained battery adds to the resale value. Most dealerships will probably do this anyway as reputable ones already provide detailed inspection reports. Warranty pricing could also reflect the battery condition report (BCR?)
I know there are similar issues with ICE cars where someone may have thrashed it and another almost identical vehicle has had one careful owner but very few ICE cars have a single component that costs so much to replace. Even an engine rebuild or replacement for most cars is about half the price.

EDIT... the 2-3 % buffer you mention is too insignificant to be effective. More than one report states maintaining charge between 20-80% except on rare occasions. I suspect the buffer you reference is for those occasions. I appreciate as an owner and user you have greater experience but are you an engineer as some of what you state contradicts what I have seen from engineers and scientists research papers involved in battery technology?

 

No, I am not an engineer. I am just an enthusiastic owner and an active member of an EV forum, SpeakEV, where these things are discussed frequently and at length by people with far more experience and technical knowledge than I will ever have. I spend hours watching EV stuff on YT and soak up as much as I can about the whole sector.

I agree with your point about technical reports on the battery at sale - I said the same myself.

Your point about 20-80% is, broadly speaking, accepted good practise, but it is important not to over egg it. Don't make it appear that it is leading directly to battery damage to charge it to 100, and so manufacturers are being disingenuous quoting 100% figures for range. It's not true. If you need the range, because you are going on a long trip, charge to 100. It's perfectly fine. In fact, its recommended to do it around once a month on average, to balance the cells in the pack. Just don't leave it at 100 for extended periods of time.

Even this advice is redundant in the case of LFP batteries which are now used in Tesla, will soon be common in Kia / Hyundai and across the sector. They have a different chemistry, and are not in the least bit affected by a full charge. Its positively encouraged.

 

These prices are off the scale for me. The most I've spent on a car is around 4 grand, second hand from Triple M in Wombwell. I can't fathom those prices and don't understand how people afford them, particularly those with an average salary. Why anyone on 30k or less would want to spend circa 500 a month on a car and just repeat is just beyond me. People are being royally ripped off when you look at the interest rates.

 

Just as an addendum, my car is 2 years and 20k miles old. Whilst I haven't had the battery state of health measured definitively, I can say that it appears from the range figures I get, that it has lost nothing in 2 years. Perhaps if I had it measured it would show 1% or 2%, who knows but I would notice anything above 5% in my range and know for sure it is not close to that loss. I still have a summer range of 260 miles, same as the day it was new. In that time, about 20% of its charging has been rapid, with the rest at 7kw on my home wallbox, and it gets charged to 100% about once a month as advised.

 

I was 36 before I bought a car that was under 3 years old. I have only bought 2 new cars in my life. It does however become more feasible for many as you get older and the mortgage payment becomes a progressively smaller part of your disposable income.

It depends on what is important to people, like anything else in life I suppose. Some would buy a car. Some would travel the world. Some would give it all away. Some would buy another house, or a caravan, or whatever.

 

Doesn't make them affordable now just potentially even more unaffordable in the future.

 

Cant argue with that.

 

I suppose the thing I really can't get my head around is that people spend thousands (hundreds of their income per month) on something that they never actually own. They have to stay within a mileage limit, be very cautious with general wear and tear, and then hand the car back for an upgrade and start the cycle again - it'sa glorified car-for-hire at extortionate prices. I find modern cars very generic too, very samey but with a different badge stuck on. Back in the day cars had character and you could easily identify one by model and make. They had more attitude somehow.

I agree with you about what people choose to spend their money on, but it's such a big expenditure per month I'd much rather have a second hand car and appreciate more of my wage. But each to their own.

 

When I say "promisingly affordable", to clarify, I don't mean pocket money to your average person. I just mean that 28k for those MGs is a lot closer to the 20k you'd have to pay for an similarly sized diesel budget SUV. It puts them on the radar of new car buyers for whom there previously was no chance.

Incidentally, I've never bought a brand new car. 2 years old was my newest.

 

I have never used PCP, always bought, whether new, or used. Because every time, I think this is a lovely car, all the car I need. I'll keep this one for years. And then 3 years later, I see one and think 'oooo, I want me one of those'. And we start again. My own fault.

But it's all relative. I am at the point where I can spend 30k, it's never actually 30k of course, it's the trade up price to swap. Some people wouldn't dream of spending that much. But I would never dream of spending double that on an Audi for example. We all have our limits.

 

I bought my last car 10 years ago with exactly the idea that it would last me for years. I got a great deal through a 'middleman' car agency who quoted me a price nearly £2k less than the dealership (Doncaster Hayseldens) where I actually collected the car ! Sometimes the pitfall is the car is pre registered so in effect you are buying second hand, but this was all exactly as if I was buying direct from the dealership (I have no idea how it worked but it was all legitimate so who cares). It is a Skoda Yeti Elegance 2.0 TDi 4x4 with leather, rough road kit (needed here) and extras .
So far it has done just over 50k miles (about a third of that being trips to the UK to visit family) Being re-registered and RHD it is probably worth a 'balloon on a stick' when it comes to trade in so there is little incentive to replavce even if I wanted to. It has, up now, been 100% reliable, and being top end of the range , even at 10 years old, lacks very few features available on modern cars. Multiple airbags, auto dipping RV mirror, Xenon auto levelling Headlights, cornering lights, dual climate control and many other features (air conditioned glove box great for keeping drinks cold on long journeys in hot climates.) It is the ideal car for a hilly mountainous region where some rural roads leading to friends houses are still unmetalled and snow and rutted roads in winter required a 4x4. Oh yes and I am 68 so not sure how many years of safe driving I can look forward to About to shell out around 2ok euros (after a 50% subsidy) PV battery storage and hot water and heating (currently on GPL both electricity and gas are extortionate here) which IMO makes more sense than an EV (especially as we only have 6Kw total in a rural property for which we pay extra - standard rural supply here is 3Kw!!)

It is all that that probably clouds my judgement when it comes to buying an EV. For some it makes sense but for country bumpkins like us, less (so even though ENEL have just installed a fast charge point next to the farmacia at the bottom of our hill on the valley road).