Purely theoretical question regarding Woodrow.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Merde Tete, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. Merde Tete

    Merde Tete Well-Known Member

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    Seeing as Ivan Toney was sold this week for £10 million, we have to assume that Woodrow is worth at least the same money in today's market.

    After the restart, we went on one of our best runs of the season, but with Woodrow completely out of form, sometimes looking out of position, and according to some on here, not looking particularly interested.

    There's no arguing that Woodrow is one of the most natural finishers we've had in my time supporting Barnsley. I struggle to recall a striker who scored the sheer range of goals that Woodrow is capable of. But if he doesn't completely fit Struber's system, has to be shoehorned into the side, and we seem in theory to be capable of winning games without him, would it be better to cash in if a large offer does come along?

    This is not me advocating the sale of Woodrow by the way, I'm just interested in people's opinions.
     
  2. Tyke_67

    Tyke_67 Well-Known Member

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    Hypothetically speaking, if we are winning games without Woodrow in the team, then that proves that Struber's system would be working.

    Also, hypothetically speaking, if Toney goes for £10M then Woodrow is worth at least £15M.

    Non-hypothetically speaking, I would keep Woodrow. Can't help thinking he's just going through a lean spell (as most strikers do) and his goals tally will explode soon enough
     
  3. Oak

    OakwellStan Active Member

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    He probably is worth the same but our football club always have a habit at selling with a 50% off whatever they are worth for some reason. I'd let Brentford act as an agent and give em 10% commission
     
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  4. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    If he can’t ‘adapt’ to fit into the team and we can bring someone in who ‘fits’ and enables goals to be scored across the team more and we get ‘good’ money for him, I’d sell him.
    That said it’s mostly based on performances at end of season.
     
  5. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't think it's theoretical MT. I'm sure Struber must have been asked by now if Woodrow is a definite part of his starting eleven and if he isn't they'll be looking to move him on.
    The money we SHOULD get for him would run the club for a couple of years at a time when revenue is in very shirt supply.
    I'd love to see him playing and scoring but it's pointless keeping him here on the fringes of things.
     
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  6. jud

    judith charmers Well-Known Member

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    If we took any less than what Toney has gone for it’d be an absolute disaster
     
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  7. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I posed the very same question in my Minoroty Report end of season review of the players. Struber's defensive shape begins with the front two and the press. He prefers Conor Chaplin and Jacob Brown, and I can see why. They are capable of working harder and for longer than Cauley Woodrow, and the press will work more efficiently as a result. Woodrow was dropped back to a deeper role, at the head of the diamond, but lost his place to Luke Thomas in the final two games. The reasoning was obvious in our first friendly against Crewe. Woodrow is not great at seeing the forward passing chance, which is absolutely vital in that position. He tends to lay the ball off sideways or backwards. Thomas is not as good as he should be, but he is better than Woodrow in that position. Woodrow is a player who was bought to play a different system, and with a target man beside him. If we do not intend to play like that, unfortunately, Woodrow does not get in the team, and that is a great waste of talent. If Struber intends to play the same way, then unfortunately Woodrow will have to leave.
     
  8. Tykeored

    Tykeored Well-Known Member

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    I rated Ivan Toney and thought he was one who slipped through the net. Having said that he is 24 years old and has still to prove himself in the championship. I believe he will do okay with Brentford but at this moment in time you’ve got to think that Woodrow is worth more than Toney which in turn leads me to question whether Brentford actually did agree to the ‘believed to be ‘£10m?
    I personally would doubt anything coming out of Peterborough. They are past masters of ‘bigging it up’.
    To your original question I would be sorry to see him go but as always it would depend on who we brought in and would it improve the squad. I personally would be surprised if he does go in this window because he not in the last year and there is not as much cash sloshing round in the championship at this time. However cash flow needs may well make it necessary
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  9. Shy Talk

    Shy Talk Well-Known Member

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    One source I've seen said that Toney's fee is 6m upfront rising to 10m with add-ons. That seems more realistic.
     
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  10. Lee

    Leeds_tyke Active Member

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    I would say that Woodrow was out of form mainly because he was trying to play a style and in a position that he is unfamiliar with. I think GS recognised CWs strengths and wanted him more involved in our crucial games rather than spending time isolated up front. It worked for the team but not CW. Yes he was on the ball more but this only proved that he isn't a ball playing attacker but instead, a finisher. We didn't have another player who could be the link between midfield and attack and CW isn't that man. Play him up front with someone else (who is good) playing that role and he will score goals.

    He's not worth £10m. No where near. Toney has developed his game and is a much better striker than he was when on loan. If we were looking to sell, we'd be lucky to get £4m. We shouldn't be looking to sell anyway as he can be successful here when we play to his strengths.
     
  11. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Controversial opinion, but I think Ivan Toney has more strings to his bow which is why you get more money for him than you’d get for Woodrow.

    Woodrow is a great player, but he doesn’t stretch a defence, offer an outlet for the team when under pressure, isn’t as athletic, and isn’t as good in the air. He’s a better goalscorer and you could argue that’s all that matters, but I think teams look for a lot more these days.

    I think some fans are commenting on the Toney fee without really having seen him play recently. I think he’ll do well at Brentford, but £10 million (more likely £6m) is daft money and he won’t get 30 goals like Watkins.

    I guess what I mean is that Toney can be an asset for a team throughout different systems where as Woodrow hasn’t shown that yet. I wouldn’t want to sell him, but the OP is right - do you cash I’m if you only see him as a bench player? I think we need to be in the market for a Number 10 anyway. Someone with an eye for a killer pass
     
  12. Nottinghamtyke

    Nottinghamtyke Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to Woodrow he has struggled in Strubers system to score goals. He only made the bench for that must win game against Brentford. If someone was to offer 5 million he would be sold like yesterday. But there appears to be a lack of interest.
     
  13. Red

    Red CB Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of people are missing the point, the price of a player ultimately is decided by the fee the buying club are willing to pay ,therefore you cannot compare the value of Woodrow against Toney unless its Brentford who are bidding for him, any other suitors may have different price valuations they would go to
     
  14. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    It seems people want to criticise our 1 in 2 quality striker that was played completely out of position for large parts of last season and still ended up our top scorer.

    The period people want to criticise seems to be post covid.

    He didn't score a goal. And in some of the highlights and games I saw, he was covering plenty of ground and even tracked as far back as the right back slot at times. So obviously, even somebody with as fantastic a shot as him, he isn't going to score from 80+ yards out!

    But anyway, just to look at those 9 games.

    We scored just 7 goals. Chaplin only got 1. Brown only got 1. So nobody in that run in was anywhere near prolific. Yes, they ran around a lot, but we didn't create that many good chances and the ones that we did create often fell to people out of form or not a natural finisher, and there were numerous games people commented we created absolutely nothing at all.

    If Toney is worth £10m having never played championship football and never scored a championship goal, then for me, Woodrow is a far more attractive option. I don't recall seeing a Barnsley forward who scores so many different types of goals with such elegance and class. And in a championship team that created better chances for him, I could see him easily being top scorer in this division.

    yes, he's not going to break 100m records, or outmuscle a defender, or be a target man that lays off everything thats hit to him. But in a decent team he'll get you 20 goals a season at championship level.

    I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but they tend to be extremely rare, and expensive to buy.

    What chance have we got if when we actually get a quality performer (and not hopeful potential) that we not only sell them for peanuts, but endorse that we do.

    £15m. Not a penny less.
     
  15. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Haven't seen much criticism in this thread at all. Why suggest there is?

    It's a really valid question that the OP has posted and lots of good, reasoned responses. If you've got a really good player who doesn't fit the system the Head Coach wants to play, do you try and get them in to the team or do you accept a fee and reinvest the cash in players who do?

    I enjoyed the humour in your sign off line. Very good.
     
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  16. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    The only trouble with it is if you lose your head coach. And we haven't had longevity of managers in recent times. If we sell Woodrow I think we'd regret it.
     
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  17. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    The follow up argument/question to that then is do you back the Head Coach to be successful, knowing that he might leave, but if he does it's because you're way higher up the league than when he took over? Therefore the recruitment decisions were successful as well. Any incoming coach is coming in to a better team.

    You can't make decisions based on the possibility he might fail, otherwise why appoint him in the first place.
     
  18. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    By all means back him by going our and getting another prolific goal scorer that suits him more. But as I feel that wont happen due to the expense of strikers who know where the back of the net is, I would stick with Cauley. From what I can see he puts the effort in.
     
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  19. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    As you say Woodrow can score any type of goal as he’s a natural finisher so on that basis it’s easy to say that he can play any system and still score goals .
    I don’t know what’s happened since lockdown but I did express opinion that I thought he was avoiding injury for some reason , I could have been way off the mark or smack on it or somewhere in between .
    Whatever the reasons he didn’t score he was certainly in positions to score goals but somehow unlike the first two third of the season they didn’t go in .
    I would say there is a position in Strubers system for a natural goal scorer and he doesn’t necessarily have to be a centre forward .
     
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  20. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Theres been criticism of Woodrow since the restart. The OP asked a very good question indeed, and I don't see that individual as being critical, nor was I criticising them.

    So if we sell our best asset, for peanuts (again), seeing as you think 1 in 2 strikers should be sold cheaply... and you want to replace him with a player that scores the same amount of goals but runs around a bit more.... how much is that going to cost in transfer fee and wages, and why would they come to BFC?

    Or, do we sign someone who runs around a lot and gets 3-5 goals a season and lose 10-15 a season in a team that are woeful at set pieces, create poor quality chances and don't get many goals at all from midfield?

    I know who i'd rather have, but maybe you consider goals obscurely satirical?
     

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