Question! Is it racist to....

It's not racist to despise the individuals involved however to say you despise a culture and society clearly is (most people in that society would also despise the individuals involved).

For example it would be racist if I said I despise a society in which radio and tv presenters are allowed to molest (allegedly) underage girls. Not if i stated that i despised the individuals involved.

Hope that clarifies.

 

Very well put.

 

So as a nation we could be judged on the Yorkshire rippers actions cos as a Christian he claimed god had told him to do it?

 

He was insane, many of these people are perfectly sane but carry out these barbaric actions in the name of honour and religion.

 

Perfectly sane? Are you sure?

 

I hired during the 70s and 80s over the years several hundred Pakistanis through 'BP Agencies' in Karachi. Their application forms were submitted to the Company in Minaret al Fahal (Sultanate of Oman). Where Nationality was requested in the particular box, the majority (in the region of 90%) inserted 'Paki'.

I do believe the PC brigade have made this word objectionable on behalf of the Pakistani community in the UK.

 

I'm afraid so, their sense of right and wrong, their sense of decency, respect, tolerance and empathy haven't evolved since the days of the Roman empire. They do these things out of some backwards sense of honour and religious bigotry.

 

The PC brigade?

Not the right wing fascists that have used the term to try and demean and dehumanise them for their vile propaganda?

 

I would bet that a large part of the nation would be outraged at the crime.the fact that as a nation they have been brutalised and demeaned
By fr

Alleged friend and foes probably means the crime is logged as just another atrocity to be dealt with

 

I would suggest you never attempted to try and understand or integrate with them in fact your statement is bordering on you were the master and they were the serfs.

 

I hear what you say but it is endemic in the society (this happened ....

....in a regional capital not some out of the way rural isolated community). see... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27614359

Add female genital mutilation, forced/arranged marriages women treated as 2nd class citizens and you have a culture ad society that is abhorrent to most civilised countries. These are NOT isolated incidents carried out by "insane" people and comparing the actions to those of the Yorkshire Ripper are not valid. These incidents/attitudes are commonplace occurrences and run through all levels of society. This incident got coverage because of where it occurred not because it was a 'one-off'.

 

Re: I hear what you say but it is endemic in the society (this happened ....

I guess you didn't read the bit where it said it was illegal and they were arrested? You asked a question, you got an answer. If you generalise an attribute to an entire group of people (even though it won't apply to some/in most cases the majority) it is at best stereotyping. When you do that do a society/culture/race it is racist. If you want to be racist about it, that's your choice, just don't pretend you're not.

Also, when you start a question with 'is it racist...' I think deep down you already know the answer.

 

In 2013 in Pakistan around 869 people were murdered in 'honour killings' (real number may be higher) our of a population of 180 million.

In 2013 in UK 1,730 people were killed from car accidents out of a population of 63.23 million.

Should everyone despise our country for us all driving dangerously and killing people? That includes hating me and you too, even though I know for a fact I have never injured anyone thorugh driving carelessly (I can't speak for you, but I imagine that applies to you too). That's double the deaths in almost a third of the population, yet we still wouldn't want to be tarred with that brush.

Yes, I know the number of deaths by car accidents is not the best comparison for a variety of reasons, it was just the first thing I could think of.

 

Re: I hear what you say but it is endemic in the society (this happened ....

Firstly Who the F8ck are you to call me or even imply I am "racist"? (..don't pretend you're not ") I posted a question and some relevant facts without stating my personal view. That is technically libel.

Secondly did YOU read the link which stated the police stood by and did not take any action?

Finally, (your later post) what have UK road accidents statistics got to do with any of this?

For the record I am NOT racist by any reasonable definition but then, I suspect, your definition is not a reasoned one given the examples you use to support your viewpoint.

 

Re: I hear what you say but it is endemic in the society (this happened ....

This.

If you generalise an attribute to an entire group of people (even though it won't apply to some/in most cases the majority) it is at best stereotyping. When you do that do a society/culture/race it is racist.

Yes, I did see that. I also saw later on that '"We arrested a few of them and others are currently being investigated," local police chief Mujahid Hussain said.' Which means that it is against the law, but the first police officers were in the wrong. Clearly not all the police officers would stand by and do nothing, hence the statement from Mujahid. Therefore, hate those police officers sure, but not all police officers in Pakistan.

I have admitted that it was not the best example to give. It is relevant however, as you are causing the actions of a very small minority to allow you to despise an entire society. 869 people out of 180 million, whilst still far too many, is nowhere the majority and can therefore not be used as an excuse for hatred against the whole place. There are things that cause death that happen far, far more frequently in our society, but it would be unjust for anyone to blame everyone for it.

 

absolutely no place for this in a modern world,like you say mr wooley,its sick.

 

Another, perhaps more relevant example is that approximately 85,000 women are raped on average in England and Wales every year. That is a much higher percentage than 869 out of 180 million, should I now despise all men? Of course not, to do so would be ridiculous, just as despising Pakistani society is ridiculous based on the actions of a few.

 

Have you bad eyesight?? I say again.. I have NOT stated these are my views...

.. AGAIN!! I merely posed a question and was simply playing 'Devil's advocate'. AGAIN you have called me racist. You appear to take selective 'facts' from the post and interpret them in order to fit your rather, if I may say, naive view of the world.

Looking back over some of your posts I find myself agreeing with most of your views particularly 'Nationalism'- much over-rated in my humble opinion.

In this instance though, I find your accusation of racism on my part with not one shred of evidence personally insulting. In your world anyone putting a hypothetical question stands condemned.

 

Re: Have you bad eyesight?? I say again.. I have NOT stated these are my views...

I think the answer to your original question has been clearly given - yes it is racist to attribute the actions of individuals to a particular culture or society so why carry on?