Questiontime from Sheffield

The Sun was pro Blair....

 

I just think that if there was no case to answer then the so called right wing media wouldn't have a case to put. Whenever anyone mentions corbyn and the ira the board goes into overdrive citing examples of when The Tories met with sinn fein, there’s an uncomfortable distinction twixt meeting the enemy to broker peace and attending their memorial services,weddings,support groups and campaigning against their sentences. If that isn’t showing support then I din’t know what is. Then there’s the labour mp’s and members resigning over antisemitism. If there wasn't an issue why would that be happening ? Again the board ignores the question by countering it with islamaphobia in the tory party, we’re not talking about them we’re talking about corbyn. We skirt around the matter by deflecting criticism back to the tories rather than thinking about the issue, the if course there are “our good friends hamas” There is an issue with corbyn, just because folk say that there isn't Doesn't mean that there isn't. The tories would be there for the taking otherwise.

 

You can do it to death TTS but nobody alters their opinion. I mean, have we ever had a prime minister who could openly and publicly be called a liar and a philanderer in public without any fear of being sued for defamation? A person standing for that office again even though he is currently under investigation for his favouritism towards yet another mistress while he was Mayor of London? And a person who cribs Corbyn's neutral stance on Brexit although he himself wrote two versions of a Telegraph article - one for leave, one for remain - before deciding which side he was going to come down on?

And do you really, honestly believe that right now Corbyn is in any way in league with the IRA? I grant you Corbyn's past associations have been less than desirable on occasions, but from where I'm standing it is a case of voting for the lesser of two evils. And I don't want any more years of Tory misrule and deceitfulness.

Rant over!

 

You’ve just done exactly what I posted happens every time whenever he’s criticized. Rather than consider the criticisms you deflect to the tories. You may not want any more years of tory rule but thats what we’re all heading for whilst labour is under JC. And that’s my whole point, folk neither like nor trust him, and the same can be said for boris, which is why under a different leader they’d pyss it. May and Johnson. Two of the most inept politicians I’ve ever seen yet corbyn can’t beat them. Why ?

 

As Chef Tyke said, it's not easy to grasp. And you didn't.

 

Because the right wing media peddle lies about him and people who are not very bright repeat them ad infinitum.

 

No, you are. You've been taken in by right wing media lies and now you're their pawn, their gimp, repeating falsehoods and mistruths at every opportunity. I know you're not going to like that and argue otherwise but the evidence for it is documented for all to see.

 

Nay, Mr Trickster. You can't lump me in with the Corbyn fans because I'm not one. You can see that from my many previous ramblings! I'm aware of the criticisms of him. But I think the 'friend of terrorists' stuff is cliched and exaggerated by the Tory media, but swallowed whole by right wingers. What is of far more concern to me is that Corbyn and his little chums are systematically trying to slowly oust the good, honest centre left MP's of many years standing because they had the temerity to support a Labour leader who won three landslide election victories. I guess in that regard I'm kind of agreeing with you that Labour will not win until they return to the centre ground position that can sway some of the more moderate swing voters. That said, I'll still be voting Labour because of my detestation of the Tories as presently constituted and the insular, narrow-minded isolationist stance that they represent. And even worse than that is the possibility that if I don't vote Labour then in Barnsley we might suffer the ignominy of electing one of Farage's vile racist foot soldiers. That would truly bring shame on our town.

 

Is that not exactly the problem Jay?
For Labour to win they need to overcome the Media perception of Corbyn and win middle England, last night was the first time I have seen him where I actually thought he came across as a credible leader for the masses.

 

That's exactly the problem, but we have right wing media foot soldiers on every forum, on Twitter, on Facebook, in evey pub and cafe and shop and workplace throughout the country repeating the same lies: Labour can't win, Corbyn is this, Corbyn is that. It's ********. Corbyn has always been a credible leader. Labour can win. Vote for the policies. Spread that message and see the people that smear and spread hate for what they are: not necessarily bad, but gullible, easily manipulated and voting for something that will screw their own families.

 

Really? Because I would argue that Momentum and their like have been doing that for years and in contrast the Tories have been behind on that front.
You argue it’s the fault of the right wing press brainwashing folk but equally the left wing press have equally been attacking Johnson and the Tories.
it still comes down to the fact that we have a really unpopular government and a prime minister of questionable morals and Labour should be slaughtering them in the polls and they aren’t .
The other main point is I really shouldn’t come on here when I’ve drunk a bottle of wine because I promised myself to keep out of this stuff!

 

The flames of the anti-Semitism row have been fanned by the right wing and their media for sure. But ignoring that, Corbyn has unarguably failed to take the strong, decisive action that would have halted it in it's tracks. Shami Chakrabarti is a distinguished human rights lawyer but as a Corbyn loyalist, she was hardly the right person to get to conduct an independent review (for which she was rewarded with a peerage) which was likely to, and in fact has been seen as a whitewash. Expulsions of those caught red-handed, as it were have increased of late but have been slow in coming. On the Salisbury poisoning he made points consistent with his usual stance, but he was on the wrong side of public opinion. And most of our Western allies, including the usually moderate larger European states were united in their condemnation of the Russians. Sometimes you have to play the game. And all he needed to do was to keep quiet, or simply say 'we note the actions of HM Government'. When May's government lost the contempt vote in Parliament Corbyn failed to drive home his advantage. She should have been asked the next day whether she accepted Parliament's verdict that her government was in contempt, in which case he should have demanded an apology, or whether she defied Parliament's ruling, which would have stored up even more trouble for her. I think there are many more little cameos like this where Corbyn has failed to demonstrate true leadership. Then I look across the front benches at public disgrace of a man that he opposes, and I have to vote for Jezza. But will 'middle England'?

 

I lresent the comments of the usual 'bubble' of Corbynistas on this thread! Their view that anyone who criticises Labour their manifesto and the leadership is either a) thick or (b) easily (mis) lead by a biased press who all pick on Corbyn ( given the Guardian is clearly Left of centre and the BBC Website Election pages seem to full of relatively mild Corbyn Labour articles whilst the Conservatives hardly figure) this is not an accurate reflection of the truth and frankly arrogant and insulting.

I offer alternative c) Most are not (mis) led by papers but form their own opinions and viewpoint from various wide ranging experiences and sources. If anything, it is the hard core Labour supporters on here who seem to use limited sources for bias confirmation to reinforce their entrenched concept of a class war where everything Conservatives odo is evil and out to destroy the rights of the working man. Corbyn's (Momentum's/McDonnells's?) policies are not costed fully (In spite of what they claim). Neither do they consider the flight of capital from the UK if they tried to enact them and many people see them for what they are.i.e. idealistic and naive.

It is clear the current capitalist system is failing the majority but unilaterally trying to change it in a Global economy is simply cutting your nose off to spite your face. In any case, some of Corbyn's plans fall at the first hurdle i.e. should we remain in the EU they are illegal under EU rules e.g. renationalisation plans. As for someone stating "EU would accept a Labour Brexit plan in an instant".... Utter nonsense (we dont even know what that plan is and I doubt Corbyn does).
Being a Labour supporter, and indeed a supporter of any of the main parties strategies and manifestos currently, is akin to being a practitioner of religion. You are relying 100% on 'faith' since there is no evidence that what you believe in actually exists and will come to pass.

 

Mmmmm just like they said about Miliband, who had the temerity to eat a bacon sandwich. Just like they’ll say about the next leader.
You don’t want labour to ‘kick this Tory ***** into touch’ you want a Tory in charge of labour to feel less guilty about your lack of compassion.

 

What lies falsehoods and mistruths?

 

Just on the last point Mr Tekky, I think they've stated a much closer alignment to/membership of the CU and SM? There's little doubt the EU would jump at that, surely? Although you're right - it could cause problems for big nationalisations?

 

Excuse my ignorance (laziness?) but aren't the French and Spanish railways nationalised? How does that get past the EU?

 

Blair had no case to answer because he was as Tory as Cameron.

The Sun had no interest in supporting Brown or Milliband who were only marginally to the left of Blair.

FFS Millibands ‘case to answer’ was that he looked a bit odd eating a bacon sandwich.

again I appreciate Corbyn has a much more chequered past and there’s plenty to find fault in, but even if he didn’t the RWM would be attacking him.

 

Very insulting Jay. I have nothing against Corbyn, nor do I read the gutter press. (Someone mentioned the Left wing papers smear Johnson and the Conservatives as you say the Right Wing press do to Corbyn and Labour.) I would not know as I dont get the papers.
I do though get as much as I can from various sources and whilst I agree with many of Corbyn's sentiments and objectives his methods IMO would destroy the Economy. Why would I give a shi...? Well the debt that his policies would rack up, again IMO, would fall upon future generations like my daughter and Granddaughter.
You may disagree and think his plans would be fine but again that is your opinion. However you should NOT accuse people of being thick or not very bright simply because they disagree with you. And that goes for the rest of the Labour posters on here.

 

Because there’s no EU rules to stop state ownership, there are rules about state support of failing industries. That wouldn’t stop us re - nationalising anything.

and it’s worse than you think; some of the UK franchises are at least part owned by foreign rail companies that are part owned by foreign governments. So profits from our rail tickets are subsidising travel in foreign countries.