Reading through Plymouth Forum

Are we talking about Argyle the division 4 club?

Thought so.

Can't help but laugh I suppose.

 

Thanks for that refreshing and from the heart. It's just part of the internet isn't it all this 'my dad's bigger than your dad stuff'. For my part I see Plymouth as a comparable club to Barnsley in some ways. Barnsley have played at a consistently higher level Plymouth have greater potential. I've had so e great weekends in Plymouth watching Barnsley lose and. Wish you well for the coming season.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Thing is you sound like so many of those fans who say the same things about Barnsley.

 

Hi davvers.

You'll see how we genuine salt of the earth Barnsley fans hat it when fans of other clubs look down their noses at us......and we've never called a player for leaving us, or the cub he's joined...

 

I know exactly what it is like to be the supporter of the club that everyone else in the division didn't feel belonged. In the Championship, year on year, in spite of our players or position in the table, if Argyle beat a team on a given matchday, the opposition supporters would be livid and wanted the manager's head. Time after time, a manager has been sacked after playing Argyle and losing - it seemed to be the ultimate embarrassment in the Football League.

The more I think about it actually, Barnsley and Argyle really are very similar clubs in that respect - reasonable attendances, very strong third tier/reasonable second tier clubs, but for some reason, unfashionable in the eyes of others all around.

But credit to Barnsley supporters - you didn't trust your club with a bunch of idiots who left your club for dead, racked up £18m in debts and scarpered without notifying anyone of the disaster looming. This was the situation we faced when we were in your position now. Supporters were busy trying to rescue the club, we had Peter Reid come in as manager working for no pay, the players were abandoning ship - and soon we got hit with the 10 point deduction which saw us relegated from League One. It really was from being in the playoff hunt to the Premier League to League Two relegation struggle in three seasons.

For Argyle we never had this period to stop, take stock of the situation, lick our wounds and recover. Our players were leaving left right and centre. I remember still having Bradley Wright Phillips in League One, exceptional player in League One (albeit one on £10k a week) who was top scorer in the league at Christmas by a country mile. Blackpool, by then in the Premier League came in with an offer of £20,000 to pick what was left of the carcass. In that instance Wright Phillips' goals were the only thing between us and relegation, so turning down £20,000 was a no brainer - but it is fair to say Blackpool didn't let their Premiership millions go to their head.

This season coming up will be our 4th in League Two. The first was the hardest, where we had the mere skeleton of a club and a squad left after the admin process had taken its toll. Hourihane was one of the first lads to come into our mess of his own accord, and played for free in the early years, alongside other prospects from our academy who were thrown right into the first team. After the club was saved, we clawed back from being 9 points off at the bottom of League Two to stay up by a fraction. The second season was meant to be better, but in hindsight our squad was still awful. Hourihane was placed at the centre of Carl Fletcher's possession team - who wanted to play like Spain (and tbf, Hourihane excelled in the role asked of him) but 65% possession and no goals didn't win football matches, and Fletcher ended up sacked.

Last season was our first good season of football since we went to ruin. We had a good League Two manager brought in, all the high earners had disappeared (fully paid up) and we had proper league Two players in on sensible money. Hourihane in his time under Sheridan had transformed from a young, hotheaded kid making boring passes and rash challenges - to wearing the armband, getting involved as a playmaker, making box to box runs, netting from long range regularly, and dramatically improving his tackling - diving in to win the ball instead of to hurt his opponent. It was only be virtue of Reid's 21 goals last season that Hourihane never won player of the year.

As I mentioned before, this summer has felt like the club is finally back on its feet, and the signings we have made have brought a great feel good factor. The ambition for next season is to be League One next summer, and then the next target will be the Championship. For all those thinking 'Plymouth are a small club, they are division 4', I would answer that the bulk of the problems the club has faced are behind us, and we are ready to start a 5 year project to get back in the Championship - more my own words than that of the chairman though. But after yesterday's news it looks like we will have to meet Hourihane up there rather than have him with us.

 

Nice story

 

Kin ell. Sounds a right laugh.

Would've thought that with your catchment area, if run correctly you 'should' be a Championship club. But then again, shouldn't we all ??

 

We were by and large a well run Championship club, until the local directors sold Argyle 'to take the club forward'. One of the new shareholders was a successful Japanese businessman who had wanted to invest in a football club. The other was a UK businessman who was living locally but had no prior interest in the club, and the other was a former Chief Executive of Manchester United. It seemed like a dream team really but it was a total disaster.

With regards to the former, the Japanese investor was sold his investment based on dodgy figures. When he realised he wanted nothing more to do with the club, and that was when the excrement had hit the fan, and fans were begging for money to pay HMRC, who wanted to liquidate the club. But the bloke couldn't comprehend what the mess had to do with him. He invested in a lot of shares, but it was others who had run the club into the ground.

The latter two were the real culprits. They had control of the club with their share percentage, covered up all knowledge of the debt crisis, and the panacea to our problems was going to be England's 2018 World Cup bid. They pitched, successfully, to be included in hosting the games, so Plymouth Argyle stood to benefit with a 40,000 stadium. And we all know how that ended up.

As allegations of FIFA corruption spread, the announcement of Qatar, it all ravaged their schemes like a dagger to the throat.

Despite this, knowledge of the debt levels approaching £20,000,000 were kept secret.

It was only when a supporter read that Argyle were due in court in a week's time, in the London Gazette, that supporters had any inkling that HMRC were petitioning to liquidate the football club for tax arrears. And with our chairman holidaying in Dubai!

 

That 'fit & proper person' test is faultless.

Sheridan's a decent manager at that level so you've got every chance of going up imho.

 

Agree 100% with that, couldn't believe what i was reading when i saw the view from the other Plymouth fan

 

Yes, Sheridan's not bad at all in my opinion. I was a bit alarmed at the way he publically criticised the players as our playoff efforts crashed into the rocks last season. He was picking the team and making changes each week, then criticising them when it didn't work.

But overall he has done well mentoring Hourihane into a fine player, managed to persuade Reid, Nelson and McCormick to sign, and his three defensive signings this summer have been more what we are expecting. With regards to mentoring Hourihane, Conor has been blessed in his mentors - firstly Roy Keane, then Carl Fletcher and then John Sheridan. With Danny Wilson, he has made that the 4th former top flight international midfielder he has chosen to work under.

A huge factor in his progression as an all round centre mid - he has received quality mentoring at all stages of his career to date.

The other thing I like about Sheridan is his use of short contracts. If he is unsure of a player he gives them a short contract to prove themselves, and more often than not he lets them go if they are anything short of excellent. It is so much nicer not having any deadwood piling up, and being able to wheel and deal in the windows. Currently I would say we have only two players at the club that aren't pulling their weight, and look bad value for their wage. Not too bad I suppose from the mess he inherited.

 

Thing is, mate, it's not Barnsley supporters who think we're a big club. We used to think we were quite a big fish in the second tier, but those days are long gone (since the Summer of 2000). We've also had it drummed into us that we're a small fish now, by folk employed by the club, or folk on the board. It's certainly a radical way to run a football club. Explains why we're finally where these folk thought we ought to be. Also explains the missing thousands from Oakwell on Saturday afternoons (and occasional Tuesday nights).
So no, you'll be hard pressed trying to find a BFC supporter on here who thinks we're something we're not.

Any comments you've seen the last few days that give you that impression are just people reacting to some quite ridiculous guff written on your own forum. Because as small a club as we may now be, we're still streets ahead of Plymouth Argyle. That's not attitude, or arrogance, it's a fact. It might sting you a little (stings me that the likes of Wigan are a bigger club than us these days). But it is what it is. You're on the internet, you've access to all manner of football sites so I don't need to explain why it is that we're a bigger/better club now, and historically.
But I will make a point on why Hourihane may have joined us, rather than the clubs you'd said you'd have preferred.

It's a step up for him. Just the one tier. He'll be thinking that another good season in the level above, hopefully in a winning, promotion team will further enhance his reputation. It's what Stephen McPhail did (fellow Irish, left footed midfielder). He played well in a winning side for us who got promoted from this division and got his move to Cardiff and so on. Had Conor decided to go to a Wolves, Leeds or whatever, he might not have had many opportunities in the second tier. And, who's to say any of those sort of clubs wanted him? They clearly didn't.

We're not a big club, but we're a definite step up in division, facilities and reputation. In the last three years we've had players join us who've since left for bigger/better things. Jacob Butterfield (Norwich, now Boro), Ricardo Vaz Te (West Ham), Danny Drinkwater (Leicester), Kieran Trippier (Burnley), Jason Shackell (Burnley). I'm guessing that's something our club will have made known to Conor. We're a stepping stone for any young lad who wants to reach the top. Which brings me onto John Stones. Future England captain. He played just 20 odd games for us in 2012 (product of our academy) and we lost him to Everton for £3m. Another example of the platform we offer.
But also, an example that we too are used to losing players, and for fees we feel are laughable.


I've nothing against Argyle. I certainly think you're a bigger/better club than the division you currently play in. I also thank you for coming on here and putting across your opinion on things in a decent manner. You say you'll look out for our results now, well why not pop back on here from time to time. It's nice to hear a different voice. And I wish you and your fellow Pilgrims (even the deluded ones) all the best for this season, and as you've said, you might well be playing us in League One in 2015-16.



Oh, and one final point - Peter Ridsdale. What a lovely person, eh?