Regarding yesterday and our own jobs!

Neither would I. As a manager of staff for 15+ years I would do anything to protect mine if I knew they were honourable, competent and dedicated to their role. Although I would never (even if I wanted) to be able to defend them after telling a customer to '**** off'!

I think the reaction of the aforementioned players is indefensible. It strikes me of indiscipline to the extreme degree. No matter what the level of abuse was (I only heard the 'not fit/shirt' bit) if that's the worst they experience and act like that then they're in the wrong job!

 

Do your customers give you dogs abuse and hurl all manner of expletive and insult at you? If they did you would have a right to react and your boss would probably back you.

 

YES! All calls are monitored for training and quality purposes! No matter what dogs abuse you take you have to take a professional approach! There's no swaying from that. It's inexcusable to do anything other. That's how it is. BFC players are no different, or shouldn't be!

What if a teacher retaliated when sworn at by a pupil?

They're wrong! Simple as. Dawson n Shea have acted and should be made accountable.

 

only in a professional controlled manner, if you told them to spin on it or indicated that they should go fk themselves you would be out on you' re arse

 

I don't know where you work but whenever I so much as change my tone when speaking to people at call centres they threaten to hang up. Anyway my point is that Dawson reacted badly but was provoked so as grown ups who get caught in the moment at football I think its time to draw a line under the incident and move on. Football is a unique industry and can't really be compared to our jobs and workplaces especially schools.

 

Thing is mate, you've spent the last couple of weeks saying what the club has done is wrong, that the lads shouldn't have been thrown out, that the security was heavy handed, that the statements from the club were way off. But now you're saying the players should be disciplined.

So, lads that bring smoke cannisters in, cost the club money, get us in trouble with the FA, require extra policing at extra cost - all good
Players who stand up for themselves after receiving dogs abuse - bad

Put me right if I'm reading you wrong, I'm happy to listen, but if that's what you're arguing, and that's the way it seems to be to me, then I couldn't be further away from your point of view.

 

They are highly paid professional. Earning as much in a much in a month or so than teachers would. That's not the issue. It's a behaviour thing. The fact they are footballers and would be role models which in their priveleged position should warrant behaviour above and beyond. If they can't achieve that then I'm sorry but they should suffer the consequences!

I for one absolutely hate the fact I watched a spineless display, paid 25 quid, lost 5-0 and got 'fingered' by a blowk who I've paid his wages that equate to my annual salary that he earns in a month for him actually not doing what he actually gets paid for!!!! (Shea)

 

Dawson was probably moving nearer the front so he could hear properly what was being said, because if hundreds are all shouting different things at the same time it's going to be hard to understand. Did anyone hear what he's supposed to have said to fans? I don't think it got personal with words like ******, ****er, ******** etc said by him. Just an heated debate. Dunno why he was getting abused anyway when he wasn't on the pitch for most of the game.

Shea on the otherhand needs his loan terminated if he made an hand gesture. That is crossing the line. If he wants to make the World Cup too he shouldn't be getting wasted midweek with Ping Pong. He should be knuckling down to try and turn around his garbage club form. I'd not want to be Shea on saturday as it's never nice to hear one of your own being booed. We do need a statement released.

Mansford has so much to talk about (Shea situation, Dawson situation, an embarassing defeat fans won't be refunded on, bird **** seats, all quiet on scoreboard etc) that he should probably get two pages not one in the Forest and Leicester programmes.

 

Is that for me Jay?!? I'm ont iPhone and doesn't track same as ont lappy?

 

It is mate yes. Like I said, I'm happy for you to correct me if I've got it wrong.

 

I wasn't there yesterday but I have seen us give equally spineless performances so I feel your frustration. As for the incident yesterday I look at it this way:

Its OK to boo the team but not to single out individual players and its OK to chant at the team but I stop short of singling out individuals. If I give abuse and a player (home or away) turns round and tells me to **** off then I am fine with that too. Sticks and stones...

 

No worries. For one I've never advocated the use of smoke bombs etc, let's get that straight for starters. What I witnessed at the home game for sitting int wrong seats was a PR disaster and that's what I commented on. I still believe the club handled it badly. I also congratulate them on banning fans who (like Donny away) have brought the club, rule wise, into disrepute. I've never swayed from that and if my posts have suggested otherwise I'm sorry.

But I expect the club to reciprocate that punishment for the players involved! That's my only point.

If you or anyone else wants to watch a spineless, gutless display. Vent your views and be told to 'fook off' by someone who is (a) meant to be a role model (b) is paid to perform, and doesn't (c) can't take critisism, then good luck. That's not my game and never will be.

 

Any ticket holder who engages in foul and abusive behaviour is already in violation of one of the conditions of sale of that ticket.

"We pay their wages." - We don't actually, we pay to have the grass cut and keep the lights on. But even by that theory, in what profession is it okay to verbally abuse your employee?

"Dawson is a professional and should know better." - He is also a living, breathing human being who deserves respect on those grounds alone. It is the abusive 'supporters' who have not managed their emotions. Dawson has reacted to provocation and Shea to his credit, has stood by his team mate. There is a lesson in there.

 

No need to apologise about the smoke cannister thing, it's me who got it wrong, I should apologise.

I don't want to watch spineless and gutless displays, no. Didn't go yesterday, but from what I gathered from listening to the commentary and what I've read on here, that's exactly what we produced. No arguments from me there. I have every sympathy with those who went, I imagine they were well pissed off. Losing is one thing, not trying is another.

However, you've got to direct your criticism in the right area. I believe Dawson came on when we were 4-0 down. It would take some reasoning of Hemsworth proportions to blame him in any way for the result yesterday. I haven't heard a word from anyone about him not trying. If he didn't try I really would be surprised. Maybe he hasn't got what it takes at this level (I'm not sure, sometimes he looks like he might have, at others definitely not) but you can't ever accuse him of not being a trier. Unlike many others he went over to the Barnsley fans to thank them for turning out. Another positive in my opinion. From that point on, I don't think either of us know exactly what was said.

Was it general disgruntlement from the crowd, or was it deeply personal abuse aimed directly at Dawson? If it was the former, then he overreacted and you may have a point that he should be disciplined. If it was the latter... dunno, I think people should be allowed to defend themselves against personal abuse, be they footballers or any other profession. You brought up teachers earlier. My wife is a teacher, if she was receiving personal abuse from a parent (the crowd aren't who teachers work with, they're not the children, they're the customer base, the parents) then I would definitely want her to stand up for herself.

It seems to me like it's the fans who can't take criticism. They're happy to give it out but as soon as they get some back they want the player sacking or left to rot in the reserves. Taking criticism works both ways and if you want to sling personal abuse at someone, be prepared to be criticised for it, be prepared to be questioned about it and if you're slinging it at a bloke built like a brick **** house who is trying his guts out for you, then be prepared to have to face him. If I tell someone to **** off, I expect to be told to **** off right back. A role model for me is someone who can take criticism but also stands up for themselves if abused.

 

Whitey says that his friend admitted to shouting out to Dawson and calling him an 'irish lovely person'. Personally I think that dawson had every right to challenge him over it

 

Just to add to that, concerning Shea. Not the brightest thing he's ever done, particularly as his performances aren't up to much so is already struggling to win over the crowd, but did he give the finger to the whole Barnsley crowd or was he aiming it at those who Dawson had just had an altercation with? It makes a massive difference.

Like I've already said, I don't know what was said, but maybe those having a go at Dawson deserved more than a finger, maybe they deserved a clip round the ear.

 

That's a long one to reply to. In short I never heard any personal/individual taunts/abuse. Just a general 'you're not fit' song. Which in general right or wrong couldn't be argued as a team on that performance. If Dawson (who I've not singled out, it's Shea in my sights) want to take that personally then fair do's! It either means they know they're guilty of said accusations or they don't give a *****!

As for your wife been a teacher. My mum was for 40 years, took dogs abuse from kids and parents alike but as a professional I know she never lowered herself and told anyone to fook off! Kept an element of class about her, to which she retired knowing she had always taken the higher ground when it came to morality. Something the BFC players in question can't lay claim to! Fact

 

My wife certainly hasn't told anyone to **** off either. It just isn't the environment. Put her on a football field, out of breath, legs and lungs stinging from the effort, frustrated like hell at losing, swallows her pride and thanks her own 'supporters' for turning out only to receive a mouthful of abuse in return, I think she might tell someone to **** off then. There's no doubt at all that I would. I'd have been in there like Cantona.

 

And be expected to be disciplined accordingly! That's the whole point.

 

If Dawson had gone in with a Kung Fu kick then yes, clearly he should be disciplined. But he didn't, he's got much better control than me and Eric, he just stood up for himself. Shea pulled his team mate away and gave the finger. If I started abusing someone and got the finger back, I don't care what profession that person is in, I don't believe they should be disciplined because it was me who started it. Shea may not have the same class as your mam, but I don't want players disciplined for not having any class. I already know they haven't, they're footballers.