Revoke A50 Petition

The EEC was founded in 1957.
There hasn't been a war between its member states since.

 

That’s a lovely piece of confirmation bias, without wishing to start an argument, immigration and racism played a huge part in the referendum. Maybe not for you as you claim but we’ve been privy to your thoughts on immigration on this forum for a while.

All the talk of WTO, Irish borders, no deal etc has come after the vote when it should have come before.

 

Just to get back to the EU debate I’m not saying there weren’t calls for referendums what I’m saying is people were calling to get out of EU on different reasons but lots of people were citing Austerity or Unemployed or Immigration . That’s a fact .

 

Again, there we have it! I have a point of view that is the gradual rise of the far right in this country and you, in your infinite wisdom, call my view “tripe” & “pathetic “. Germany (after WW1) was on its knees & Hitler “encouraged” its people to blame others for its austerity, that they were being “held back” by others. Hitler etc talked about others in disparaging terms (which eventually turned into subhuman terms) - trump talks about Mexicans & Muslims as a swamp - we talk about Europeans coming here & taking our jobs, about immigrants (& refugees as some people make no distinction) as a “swarm” - I live (& worked) in Rotherham when UKIP were driving trailers around saying “1400 reasons to vote UKIP” with imagery of long lines of people queuing- so, no, Farage says it’s just about immigration, but it clearly isn’t the only thing.
This is my honest opinion & it is a sign of our times that it is rubbished in the words you use - I do not rubbish your views in this way, I just disagree

 

I agree with almost everything you've written there, it's a pretty accurate summary.
Where I would differ, and I realise that I'm in a minority is May's Deal.
The main issue for me over the whole EU business is the goal of Federacy, the only way I can see that guarantees our political independence is to be out of The EU, May's Deal makes us a 3rd Country in approx 2 years time.
As I see it, it is what it is, a withdrawal agreement, one that provides a couple of years of certainty and a breathing space to define the future relationship. It seems to me that there should be enough in it for those that accept the referendum result but wish to stay close to the EU...this deal does not rule that out. Whilst I can see the ERG objection to the current backstop proposal, I'm not convinced that it is a prison clause for eternity and that their obstinacy suggests they are prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater...they may have even unwittingly done it already
My view is that we should get it through and start talking the future...Canada style deal is on the table already for those that want a harder brexit, and the argument can still be won in Parliament for those that prefer a softer option.

 

well if thats what she said then so be it, but i have never heard of WW1 being about the kaiser wanting to crush the working class,everything i've read and been told points to territory as the reason, different countries had different alliances with one another and this is why so many became involved

incidently the press at the time were outlawed from printing anything remotely anti war and were actually ordered to support the war effort with the propaganda being the result.

 

Mainly because WW2 left Nato and the Warsaw Pact in complete control of Europe for the next 40 years, it also knocked the stuffing out of anyone wanting a fight...and democratised forcibly several potentially belligerent countries.

 

I'd say it still stands as a more valid reason for membership than no longer needing to recycle, getting rid of fridges easier and having our own queue at the airport etc.

 

In historical terms he didn’t
What I’m trying to say is the propaganda at the time in the media was aimed at recruiting .
You can imagine the papers printing anything .certain parts of the media we’re aiming at differing views .
I’ve seen some of the cuttings etc my grandmother kept and there were all sorts of stories .
What I’m saying is and what austinho was disrespecting that my grandfather and others like him went to war on similar ideals as we hold today whether the media at the time were printing untruths or exaggerations is irrelevant they went on principle .
I have as have you when we were young and went in the mines listened to all sorts of stories .abd these are some of the stories .
I’ve worked with top ex footballers who went in the mines after their football career . I’ve worked with ex squaddies who liberated Belsen who were politicised .
I’ve also worked with ex International Brigadesmen who were politicised.
Whatever the first war was about it was aimed at all views by the media .

 

well,i'm rubbishing you because once again the argument against people who voted leave has swung around to fascism and comparisons to hitler,like i say pathetic

NATO is the reason for this and not the eu , the germans who decimated europe not once but twice were ordered to disarm and the deployment of nato troops in their backyard ensured peace continued..

those who signed would still have signed no matter what was on the table,they want to remain,at all costs..No deal was not dismissed as project fear,it was the consequences in that we as a country would face an apocolypic future after a no deal that was dismissed as project fear.

 

NATO is PART of the reason. The EU being another part obviously doesn't suit your agenda.

 

and now we are staring at the formation of a eu army,promoted in particular by the germans and french even tho nato has kept peace for decades they are quite willing to take a different route

 

Try this link it gives some insight of the govts propaganda at the time

https://www.bl.uk/world-war-one/articles/propaganda-as-a-weapon

 

I believe we have a veto on that. Or does that not suit your agenda either?

 

no agenda pal,no what so ever, nato,the warsaw pact and the nuclear deterrent were set out to keep peace and it has worked,

the eu project for the first 30 years of its inception was promoted as purely a trading block,it was nothing to do with keeping peace,this myth has been peddled in later years as unrest about the eu and its objectives started to surface

 

The mutual economic benefits and interdependence of the member states of the EU is bound to reduce the risk of hostilities between them.
I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.
With regard to NATO we should absolutely remain in it.
However, given the hatred heaped on Tony Blair for following the US into the Gulf War. Given Trump's threats to pull out of NATO. Given the cavalier nature of America's willingness to wade into conflicts of its own interests would we not be sensible to keep our military options open in our own interests?

 

marlon,ive read hundreds of articles on WW1

we may well have a veto on that, but this will not stop the germans and french (for some reason) from distancing themselves from nato

The creation of NATO was thee single biggest factor to keeping peace and keeping an eye on the germans, the same germans who are now claiming that a eu army takes away the reliance of nato.. are you sure its me that has an agenda?

you see, i see nato as being thee biggest reason our generation has not suffered like our forefathers,this my friend is not an agenda

 

Then if you don't have an agenda against the EU you'll accept my point about economic interdependence reducing the risk of conflict.

 

i'm not for one minute saying there are no mutual benefits but to discount nato in favour of the eu is simply wrong

trumps threat to pull out of nato was directed at certain countries who were not paying their fair share , apparently this has now changed and these countries have increased their spend.. as far as i'm aware,spending was based on a % of gdp and some nato members were not contributing this whilst at the same time having the protection nato offered