Russia invades Ukraine

Of course we won't use them whilst conventional wars play out. My point is that Putin has effectively threatened to use them if the West intervene. If we are attacked by Putins nuclear weapons we WILL respond in kind. He won't use them though because he knows the consequences

 

I don't think anyone knows with certainty who is capable of doing what.

 

The problem lies when one side gets the upper hand.

 

There is no upper hand SD, that's why numbers are largely irrelevant. Both sides have nukes. It doesn't matter if one has 10 and the other has 500. Mutual destruction is assured and is why they've not been used since WW2.

 

Sadly still relevant after all these years

 

I wish I could feel so certain but get your point.

 

Does anyone really think Johnson will bring about proper sanctions against Putin's Russia, I don't because the Tory's and in particular Johnson are very friendly with these super-rich Russians he has even put one in the house of lords a media mogul Evgeny Lebedev he was put there at the same time with Joe Johnson (his brother) and Brexiteer Cricketer Ian Botham looks like cronyism to me and get this Lobedov's full title is " Baron Lebedov of Hampton in our London borough of Richmond upon Themes and of Siberia in the Russian Federation" It's alleged his father was in the KGB, I bet he paid more for that seat in the house of lords than Johnson got for the Tennis match with a Russian woman.

 

The Labour Party is still and always been a broadchurch, I don’t see anything wrong with initially them signing their names to this, nor do I see anything wrong with most of them now withdrawing their names given what is now happening. You can try and politically point-score all you want on this but the fact is the Labour Party are not only supporting the govt in this, apparently they’re actually part of the discussions/ decision making. Good job the Labour Party didn’t have millions and millions pumped into their coffers by Russian Oligarchs who are said to be close to Putin/ The Kremlin or The Tory press and Media would’ve been like sharks on a feeding frenzy and rightly so.

 

Glad to hear that you are good and sincerely hope you continue to be so.

A question for you, and feel free to completely ignore me as it's personal... Why on earth would you choose to live in Russia under a dictator when there's so many democratic countries you could have a great life in? I just can't fathom it.

Like I say, feel free to ignore or tell me to go away. I completely respect your opinion but am genuinely interested.

 

See, that's why I put it on.
I wasn't trying to 'politically point score', just pointing out by way of balance, that some folk who are quick to point to to Tory connections get suddenly twitchy and defensive when this side comes out.
Labour can be a broad church but not the Tories? Sure the Tories have a lot of scumbags but Labour have a lot of folk like these too, both factions dangerous in their own way !
If you can't see anything wrong with them signing something like that ( they only withdrew after pressure from Labour whips and Starmer) fair enough but I certainly can with wording like that.

 

What sanctions do you think we could put in place to make putin retreat? We are relliant on russia for oil as are most of Europe.
Makes me sad watching all these people fleeing there homes kids screaming while rockets are launched nearby and we just make sanctions.

 

If one side has the advantage of more advanced weapons, they'll use them. As the USA did when they detonated nuclear weapons over Nagasaki and Hiroshima. And when we fire bombed Dreseden.

If both sides have them then the certainty of retaliation prevents the initial strike as mutual distruction is guaranteed. Or so the theory goes

But that theory relies on the sanity of those in charge. If you don't care that you would also be wiped out then there is no deterrent. I'm far less worried about the events in the Ukraine than I am about western politicians, previously on good terms with Putin, describing his current demeanor as deranged.

 

I can't get my head around the people that want us to take action in the Ukraine but when asked what we should do don't have a scooby doo because they also fear the repercussions. Then in the next breath label people selfish and intermate they don't care about the plight of the Ukrainian's and quote tyranny's and atrocities throughout history. If you want to bring that level of destruction to the U.K that's your prerogative.

 

I don't get this "Putin has suddenly lost it" narrative. He's been playing the long game for years, changing the constitution of his country to allow himself to remain in power long enough to see it through. This is a calculated plan 15-20 years in the making. Possibly longer than that.

 

Tory Broadchurch, aye alright. We’ve seen how much they are not so much of that in the last couple of years. I’m not twitchy at all just pointing out that these MPs would always be against anything they see that can be linked to aggression. This is not having ‘ connections’ though is it, it’s an anti-war stance if anything and are not being complicit with the Russians. Hardly ‘by way of balance’ is it, more likely a typical. ‘ but Labour’ rhetoric often spouted on here by those of a Tory persuasion.

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting he's gone from Tom in the Goode life to Dick Dastardly overnight. He's always been a power hungry narcissistic dictator. But there are many levels a person can be within that and it's not static.

 

For me it does feel wrong that were just letting putin do what he wants. I dont think sanctions will stop him and if we send in military it will be very worrying so were in a hard place. If this was happening in middle east we would be in in a shot but were abit scared of putin. The Ukrainian pm sent a statement out this morning saying the west is just watching and it does feel like that.

 

I wouldn't go so far as quite saying "he's lost it"... but I'm not sure this is a carefully orchestrated plan either.

I do think he's very isolated and with his want for power and control, that can't be a good thing. He does strike me as an agitator looking for weaknesses though and potentially exploiting them.

What has been telling is the change of language. The rambling revisions of history. I don't recall him being this bold in the face of widespread condemnation before. Maybe it has all been a long playing act and we're seeing more of who he really is, but my personal view is he seems more paranoid than he's been seen to be previously.

 

S

see you are so blinkered, its not even worth trying to debate with you.
Its all Labour good, Tory bad. Which is total ****** as there are good and bad in all parties.

Also if you can't see the wrong in signing a statement that says

" the group accused the British Government of “aggressive posturing” and that Nato “should call a halt to its eastward expansion”. There's even less point in trying

That aggressive posturing was the government ( and others) trying to deter Putin from invading by force a smaller neighbour for no other reason than he wanted it.
Nato eastern expansion, a country wants to join for its own safety , what do you do turn them down? Nobody forces them to join!

 

There's certainly good and bad in the Labour Party. I don't see any good in the Conservative Party. I'm not saying that to be provocative, I genuinely don't.