Russia invades Ukraine

Totally agree, very uncomfortable with this kind of propaganda tactic, more like something I expect from the likes of the Taliban. All POWs have rights under the convention and they should be respected.

 

What about prisoners of special military operations ?
You’re right though, of course.

 

Poland did not exist as a sovereign nation for 123 years. It was reformed and it borders ratified at the Treaty of Riga in 1921

Of course there were Poles who existed on whatever land had previously been Poland. Some of them were my ancestors. I'm half-Polish. I've talked to many Poles about this.

 

I'm afraid they do.

Poland did not exist as a sovereign nation for 123 years. It was reformed and it borders ratified at the Treaty of Riga in 1921.

If you talked to any Pole about this they would be fully aware of it.

 

It was absorbed into the Russian Empire, The Austro Hungarian Empire and Prussia. South east Poland and Ukraine was largely a place called Galacia which was part of the Austro Hungarian Empire.

At one point Napoleon reformed 'The Duchy of Warsaw' to give the Poles the vague hope that he would help them reinstate the Polish Nation. The Polish National anthem was written during this period and tells the story of Dabrowski and the Polish legions who fought alongside Napoleon in Italy.

I would have thought that just the first two lines of the anthem indicate that Poland was no longer a sovereign nation at that time. Of course people on this board might have a different views. But I wouldn't express them in front of a Pole. I really wouldn't.


Poland has not yet perished,
So long as we still live.
What the foreign force has taken from us,
We shall with sabre retrieve.

March, march, Dąbrowski,
From Italy to Poland.
Under your command
We shall rejoin the nation.

We’ll cross the Vistula, we’ll cross the Warta,
We shall be Polish.
Bonaparte has given us the example
Of how we should prevail.

 

Well we didn't go to war, we declared war in September 1939. Britain and France were bound by a treaty to defend Poland but did nothing.

 

We didn’t abandon it after the war at all , the Polish Communist party took over and allied with the ussr , nothing we could do apart from declare war on the Polish Government which wasn’t an option at all after all the worlds turmoil at the time .
Ps
This happened to most Eastern European countries the communist took over the country from the Nazis .

 

It was an independent country from the 14th century for 400 years.

 

The Polish government in exile was in Britain in 1945 as were most exiled governments of occupied nations. Stalin imposed his own government in Poland and the allies were forced to recognise that government as Soviet Force occupied everything up to Berlin. Of course there were 'elections' in Poland that seemed ratify this but like all Soviet elections it was a sham. Also at Yalta, Poland wasn't just handed over to Soviet control it lost half of it's pre-war territory - the Eastern half. This territory became the Soviet States of Belarus and Ukraine.

 

The Polish Govt in exile was just that , if we wanted to install this govt we would have to have fought the Polish Declared Govt at the time which was the communist party .
There was no appetite to fight communism after all the upheaval and it meant fighting Polish People and getting involved in a Civil War which we didn’t go and imo that’s hardly abandoning them as the Communists were Polish not an invading army as the Nazis .

 

Hardly a democratic process considering pretty much every party bar the Communist Party was outlawed in the years between 1945-47. Either way, point remains that it's a bit of a stretch to call Poland one of our 'closest allies'.

 

Marlon. I’m being serious. Never EVER express those views in public because if anyone who is Polish overhears you, I would fear for your safety.

I don’t know how you’ve come to those opinions and this isn’t the time for half-baked internet theories. I advise you to read BEHIND CLOSED DOORS by Laurence Rees. A good read by an academic who writes well and takes a complex subject and makes it understandable.

In the west since WW2 we’ve unknowing swallowed a mix of Russian, British and American propaganda that has hidden what actually happened.

 

I didn’t say they were our closest allies , I said we didn’t abandon them .
It wasn’t our role to decide what system the Polish people took after being liberated ,
The Polish Communists took over and as much as their was resentment over their USSR so called liberators there was a lot of collaboration also .
We did not get involved as it was the Polish Peoples problems to decide who governed them .
There’s was shenanigans by Stalin of that there’s no doubt but the people on Govermment were Polish and had a lot of support at the time from its people .

 

I didn't say you did, I was referring to Ben Wallace's statement. Sorry for the confusion. The Polish people didn't get a fair choice over their future, which was my point. We basically agreed with Stalin what would happen with Poland.

 

That’s a disgusting post Statis .

 

My Czechoslovakian born grandmother was told on her release in 1945 that the country where she was born no longer existed. Rightly she couldn't accept this - how can you be born and brought up in a country and then be told that the country doesn't exist?
So many Eastern European countries have had their boundaries altered - part of Czechoslovakia was 'attached' to Ukraine.
Parts of Hungary were 'attached' to other neighbouring countries in 1945.
The Crimea was part of Russia up to 1954 - then became part of Ukraine - then Putin stepped in and it is now part of Russia.
Nationality is a very complex issue !

 

This thread appears to have gone off on a slight tangent...

 

It was agreed the USSR would liberate the Eastern European Countries it wasn’t. Agreed they would rule ,they installed Communist puppet Governments that were Friendly to Stalin .
It was wrong but it wasn’t anything that could be done without further civil war in these countries . Let’s not forget there were many Communists sympathisers in these countries at the time and Stalin took advantage .
The Red Army bore the brunt of taking over these countries with along with Berlin with Millions dead .
Whether it was wrong of the British and US is a tough one as Roosevelt and Churchill wanted to save as many of their troops as possible whilst Stalin didn’t care the wrongs and rights of those decision are still being felt to this day .

 

It wasn't meant to be at all. Let me put it another way. If you expressed those views to someone from Poland they would be horrified as they are wildly wide of the mark. I'm not saying you shouldn't have your views and due to misinformation over the years I can see how you come by them. But I would suggest reading that book. I read it many years ago and it was instrumental in letting me see what actually happened at the time. That's all. My original post probably went over the top. But these are serious times and best to get as much credible information as possible. I apologise for any offence caused.

EDIT. I've just re-read my post and see that I made a reference to 'half-baked internet' theories and that looks like I'm accusing your views as 'half-baked internet theories.' That is not what I meant at all.

What I actually meant is that with so much social media and internet theories going around, its best to refer too sources that are credible. I can see how you took offence and apologise once again.