Safe standing

This might be a bit controversial, but I'm at a loss to understand why the campaign group for the 96 Hilsbrough victims are against the use of safe standing.

I fully understand their loss and hurt but the facts speak for themselves, the provision of the safe standing seats/barriers as now in use by Celtic would have prevented the crush from cascading down the terrace to the front where the majority of casualties were.

Everybody knows that large numbers of people stand at all-seater grounds in the Football League/Premier League. Standing in current seating areas is certainly more dangerous than it would be with the new barrier seats. Think about what could happen if a few people get carried away after a goal is scored and somebody falls forward. They would fall onto the people in front as there is nothing to stop them, remembering of course that in seating areas, the drop in height from one row to the next can be significant. That could cause people on the next row to fall onto the ones beyond.

Going back to the 96, since they were all prepared to stand at Hillsbrough that day, surely they would look on the new safe standing barrier seats as a welcome improvement in spectator safety.

 

barrier seats

what are these ?

 

found this site.....

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/what-does-safe-standing-look-like/




that seems a decent compromise to me.

 

Re: found this site.....

That's them, the seat bit can be locked in standing position or used as a seat depending on the game. I think they are a brilliant idea and safer than both the old terraces and modern seating for the reasons in my original post. It would massively improve the atmosphere at games. If Barnsley were allowed to do this on the Ponty it would be rocking. Obviously people would be expected to occupy the space of a seat to avoid crushing, but I think people would accept that and not abuse it.

The Premier League are discussing it.

 

Re: found this site.....

You think people would respect it? No chance. A disaster waiting to happen

 

Re: found this site.....

Get them put in. It may encourage my parents back down to watch as all seater stadia was the reason they stopped going after 30 years

 

Re: found this site.....

Why? They don't all crush together when they stand up in a seated area, so why would they do different with these new barrier seats? The stewards could easily spot anything like that and sort it out.

 

Re: found this site.....

Look at the back of the away end tomorrow and at the tip corner of the ponty end, you'll see people standing close together in the areas without seats (camera area and gangways). Stewards completely fail to deal with it week in week out. Now imagine the top corner of the ponty end without any seats to control where people should be. Do you think for one second that the idiots would stand neatly between the two lines defining their designated area? Not a chance, they'd be squashing up together to let their mates stand near them

 

Re: found this site.....

Serious question. Would they (or you) be willing to pay more for your ticket to fund it? Would you be happy to pay quite a bit more for a season ticket to stand in the ponty end than somebody else would for their seating season ticket in the east upper?

 

Re: found this site.....

Ok, so it would make no difference to people gathering where they shouldn't in numbers that they shouldn't, however, the barrier seats would prevent people falling onto the row below.

Safer - even if people crammed into the rows the barriers would be strong enough because of the limited space, hence limited numbers of people. Besides which they'd all be on one level the ones at the back of the row wouldn't have a decent view so they'd spread out.

It works brilliantly in Germany FFS.

 

Re: found this site.....

But in a short while we are probably going to have to modernise the west stand so why not look at it as an option? This way we could probably have it 2/3rds of the way towards the away fans,leaving a reasonable distance between them and us, and we wouldn't lose money in big games by the police insisting we can't use half a stand.

 

Re: found this site.....

But still the question applies just with the stand changed. Would you be happy to pay quite a bit more for a painted box on the floor than for a seat?

 

Re: found this site.....

It actually doesn't work brilliantly in Germany. The rail seats are an awful compromise designed with one consideration in mind. Regulations. They aren't really fit for purpose as standing areas because there is nothing to stop people running around the concourse or bunching up and they are absolutely awful as seats on account of the giant metal bar straight in front of your eyes.

That doesn't mean that a form of safe standing isn't a good idea, just that rail seats aren't it. They are a massive compromise because they try to satisfy two totally different markets with one product

 

It sounds awful to me. I can't think of anything worse than standing in the middle of people who are probably all taller, bigger built and significantly drunker (therefore less co-ordinated and more likely to bump into others) than me. I stood up at the only rugby match I have ever been to and struggled to find somewhere to stand as everyone was standing wherever they wanted, I couldn't see a thing, I was getting knocked about all over the place and left after about 30 minutes as the feeling of claustrophia was genuinely quite scary (and that was without anyone having scored and sending people crazy jumping about). I don't particularly enjoy it when people are sat either side of me now but at least it's fairly obvious where each person's area to be in starts and ends, I honestly can't imagine asking someone to move along a couple of inches in a standing area as I'm fairly certain I'd be told where to go.

 

And yet JD

We really enjoyed it when we could, you could just meet up with your mates with minimal planning, try different views, mind you being 6' 2" did help, ( I did always try to not obstruct others views though).
Also when we were young if you went to a big match particularly behind the goals the 'sways' were amazing particularly after goals everybody forwards umpteen yards sideways a bit and then amazingly (usually) right back where you started from!
Possibly sounds horrendous now to dedicated 'sitters' but I wouldn't have missed it for the world

 

You ask em for a bit of space. Youll get some.
Or you find a safe zone towards the edge if you dont like the 'craziness' down the middle.
My missus loves standing at footy. If at anytime did she feel unsafe then we would have shifted.
And she gets claustrphobic as well.

 

Potentially, or else I get a load of abuse. That's like saying ask someone infront of you to sit down (in seated area now) and they will. Perhaps your missus is braver than me, or perhaps she knows you'll back her up but I go to matches alone and I can't see me asking a drunk, burly guy to move if he's with a bunch of mates who I can just tell won't take me seriously.

Obviously, I understand that I wouldn't be forced to go in that area, I'm just explaining why I personally wouldn't want to use it.

 

Re: And yet JD

That reminds me of a story my dad likes to tell of when he was at a match with his mate (they were Leeds season ticket holders boo and it was a big draw match). Leeds scored in the last minute and he turned round to celebrate with his mate as the crowd surged forward and he saw his mate disappear under everyone. I've never seen my dad laugh so much when telling a story before. It gets him every time! (It's worth nothing that his mate wasn't seriously hurt although he definitely wasn't best pleased when he re-emerged). On the flip side though, my dad does admit with hindsight that it was dangerous and doesn't think it should return as much as he had some good memories of when he was younger.

 

Try it. Youd be suprised. The overwhelm8ng majority will shift up a bit.
My missus very rarely has me holding her hand at footy. She goes on her own or with her dad. And shes never been abused by anyone at football either about her sex or her creed.
Been some interesting remarks about players on the pitch but non at her.
Stop believing supertykes dramatic all barnsley men at football are pissed up loons. He does the overwhelming majoirty of us an injustice.

Get your self on a day out wi courthouse. Youll be a bit worse for wear but ill bet my salary that blue cuz and the rest of the old hands will make sure you are as safe as houses.

 

I feel like I'd maybe love to but in reality it could go either way (perhaps not on that coach if you know those people and can vouch for them, I just mean in general). I normally don't let being a lass affect me doing things and I've been on the club coaches before but a pub coach seems like a different kettle of fish. I've been on train journeys where pissed up lads have had 'banter' with me for well over an hour (ranging from loud comments about me and what I can do to them plus some unwanted groping). I'm sure they thought they were being complimentary and hilarious and most of it was quite funny to be honest (not the groping, it got quickly unfunny after that) but it just got a bit old after a while of jaw aching fake smiles and laughs to keep them on side so that it didn't turn nasty. When I went along to the BBS meet up before I'd even got home there was a thread on here about my arse. True, I get it was just a laugh and it was complimentary so I didn't really mind but none of the guys who turned up got a thread dedicated to the size of their manhood. If a situation had turned sour (which it didn't, everyone was lovely and I'm looking forward to the next one) I know I'm somewhere familiar and able to leave at any point if it did get uncomfortable, sitting in an enclosed coach for hours and then in a strange city where the only way I can get back home is on the same coach is a bit different.