Scabs v Barnsley Sky Highlights

Scabs? really?
How far back do you take a grudge? I know some muslims are all for "revenge the crusades" but...

 

My brother's wife's grandad was a scab in 1926, his name was on a big wooden panel on the wall of Goldthorpe WMC. He'd been allowed back in over the years but after the 1984 strike started, he was barred again. Long memories.

 

A shame really. If we don't forgive and forget at some time we're right in the ****

 

That can be said about some of the most significant events in history though, but we make sure we remember them, if for no other reason, so we don't repeat the mistakes that our civilisation made in the past...

And personally, I want my kids, and(when I have them) my grand kids to know all about the strike as I think it was a key part of our town, country and community's history. I sat down with my son(who's 13 now) and we talked about it in great detail, looking through web sites and books on the subject, and I feel that the miners' work ethic and their willingness to strike for a significant length of time over something they believed in 100% has had a profound effect on him.

And as an added bonus, it seems to have amplified his love for the town and our football team and is even prouder to wear the club crest with the miner and glass blower(which his great grandad did for a living) now he knows a little more about our town proud history...

 

Notts was more significant as it was a big coalfield with 30,000 miners. If they had all come out on strike, the dispute would have been won in a matter of weeks or months. This area also had previous form for scabbing in the 1926 General Strike.

 

So you are supporting someone perpetuating the anti- Nottinghamshire rhetoric and labelling the whole population for something that happened over 30 years ago before many of those supporters were born and most who had nothing to do with mining in any case. At the same time you are a pro-Europe EU run by a country that twice in the last century caused the death of countless millions and suffering on an unprecendented scale.

Someone calling people you they don't know anything about 'scab' is pathetic and embarrassing for the club when supporters resort to childish name calling . I am surprised that you appear to support that. I thought you were bigger than that.

Time people moved on. If everyone took the attitude of "never forgive" then we would still have IRA bombs going off all over the place.

 

Calling an other teams fans childish names is part of being a football fan...

We call fans of both Sheffield clubs Dee Daa's, they call us Dingles, they call each other Pigs, Liverpool call Everton Bluenoses, Bizzle City call rovers Gas Heads and that is to name just a few examples.

Although the "scab" chants started as a result of the strike situation, my young un and their mates now just use it as a term for Forest fans in general, just like we call Sheffielders Dee Daa's, even though a lot of them don't talk like that. Not saying it's right or wrong, but its no different...

 

"Never forget" Nothing wrong with that at all . In fact it is good to learn from past events. However,

"Never forgive" Every thing wrong with that. It means learning NOTHING from past events and has nothing to do with successive generations chanting abuse at another group of people most of whom were not born when it happened or had nothing to do with the mining industry in any way shape or form. It just perpetuates the animosity between the two areas. Barnsley should be looking forwards not dwelling on the past.

"Forgive but never forget".

 

Never said anything about not forgiving, but that's down to the individual that was effected by said historical event.

For example, don't you think a minor that had a way of supporting themselves during the strike(savings, family etc) would be far more likely to forgive the actions of those they perceived as the enemy and later the reason the strike was lost than the widow who's husband took their own life as they couldn't see a way out of the financial black hole that the strike had left him in.

i think what his thread has done more than anything, is that there are still many that were effected(either directly or indirectly through family and friends) that are not ready to either forgive or forget, and it isn't up to either me, you or anyone else to dictate if that is right or wrong...

 

I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who after 30 years cannot move on or more specifically forgive someone who reached their limits of endurance during the bitter campaign. Everyone has a limit and that limit depends on the individual and their circumstance. A distant relative of my wife went back to work literally 1 day before the strike was ended simply because he had no money, no support and a small baby. His family has never forgiven him to this day and he never again spoke to his father before the latter died.

It is indisputable that miners and families suffered horrendously, but blaming other miners for someones death simply because they had reached their limits and went back to work is irrational and damaging.

I wonder how many of those who stayed the course were young(er) single men or had means to support themselves and what percentage of those that caved in had young families and no support or alternative means to feed themselves or their families. A Vendetta creates two victims (and more if it is allowed to fester and pass to the next generations).

Anyone who genuinely believes (and there is at least one poster on this thread who does) that the strike would have been won if the Notts miners had not gone back to work is delusional. There was no way the Thatcher Government was going to give in as it was an ideological war she was waging. The real enemy was not those who caved in but over time the rift between the mining communities has not been closed. Thatcher succeeded with the 'divide and conquer' tactic more than she could have imagined as it still exists 30 years on.
My main point is though, that passing on hatred of a group of people based on personal experiences from another time to kids is how we end up with Protestant vs Catholic, Israeli vs Palestinian, Sunni vs Shia, Christian vs Muslim and all the other religious conflicts based on things that happened before any of the current population of this planet were even born. At some point it HAS to stop.

 

Ffs. It's turned into a football chant.
Can't you see the chant has no significant meaning to many , it's just used as a chant against opposition football chants.
They still using about a monkey at Hartlepool is that cringey?
Stop crusading against a chant and making it out it's just from people who were there.
Those that crossed those lines know what they are .

 

So out of around 1 million population in Nottinghamshire in the 1980s about 1500 miners broke the strike.

So that is about 0.15%. S

ince that was around 30 years ago, how many strike breakers does anyone think is in the average crowd at a Notts Forest game in 2017?

Sorry. Chanting 'scab' just makes Barnsley appear like a backwards looking throwback to the last century and NO it is not banter. You cannot, on the one hand, condone it because many strikers and families suffered so they cannot forgive, and on the other call it typical rival club 'banter'.

If you really want to show pride in the town and its heritage, move on.

 

Like I say, everybody's situation, limits and beliefs are different. It's not my place to tell you if your's are right or wrong, just like it's not your place to tell others that they should just forgive and(not)forget...

Lets just leave it there shall we?

 

My sentiments exactly! My lad and his mates use it the same way we use "Dee Daa" for the Sheffield Teams...

 

No. 1,500 out of 30,000 miners in Notts stayed out on strike.

 

So your position outlined above applies to IS then? Really??

 

Not at all. Which is why I said to leave the "conversation" as is.

If you what to get on your soapbox and talk down to folk you don't know, knock yourself out. Just don't take offence when they ignore you...

 

It isn't up to you to decide when people should move on. It's down to people's own personal experiences, of which you clearly have none on this subject.

 

This comes up in every game with Forrest and it will do again.

I think you are trying to bring a rationality to a situation that is impossible to look at with cold hearted objectivity. Of course the chant isn't aimed at everyone in Notts; of course it's important to learn from history and move on (and yes - that means forgiveness) BUT; if you were born and brought up in Barnsley and either went through the horror that was the strike, or have learned about it through relatives, then it becomes part of your genes and rationality can take a back seat.

I consider myself a reasonable, rational, liberal minded individual. I'm on the Guardian reading, sandal wearing, muesili eating wing of this site, but even today if Thatcher/Tebbit Link et al come onto the Telly I'm reduced to an angry, baying heap of resentment. It's the ONLY thing that sends me that way and I'm not ashamed of those feelings. They are not rational but it's hardly rational for a Govt to decide to smash a group of men, women and children, using all (and I mean all) the power of the state - if you come from that community and remain unaffected, then that's worth pitying.

 

It's a chant !!! .