Should every vote be equal?

I think we're talking about different people...sadly you misunderstand that.

 

I'm talking about people who you wouldn't trust to feed your goldfish when you're on holiday but have been trusted to decide the long term future of the country. I'm talking about people who inexplicably think that leaving the EU will stop ILLEGAL immigration but can give absolutely no explanation or justification for this thought process. I'm talking about people who bought the clear and obvious lie that the money saved would go straight to the NHS only to find out that even Nigel ******* garage admitted it was a lie before the ink was dry on the ballot papers.

I'm talking about people who are thick as ****.

And no that doesn't mean everybody who voted leave, a lot did so for very valid reasons and a lot did a lot of thinking and research beforehand. But a hell of a lot of them are thick as **** racists and bigots who have no idea what leaving g the EU ACTUALLY means and have voted based on obvious headline grabbing lies and clearly wrong assumptions

 

I agree, what a bitter and twisted view Jamo has.

I'd a free higher education - 'cos that's was how things happened at the time; jobs a plenty - when was that then, must have been before 1977 when I started looking for work; affordable housing - I'll concede I got a 100% mortgage so didn't need a deposit - I was still mortgaged up to the you know whats though (and houses have only ever been as expensive as people can afford); nivver lived well beyond my means - any debt I've ever had I've had to pay back - with interest (at much more than current rates); saddled future generations with enormous debt - ???dunt really get that one. I didn't vote for austerity, I didn't vote for tuition fees, I haven't "swanned" along and I haven't lived the life of Riley (unlike Manxy :wink but Jamo chooses to believe the streets were paved with gold for those born before xxxx whenever.
Ohh, and I voted to stay.

An apology from Jamo for calling me a complete *******s would be welcome; I'll not hold my breath though waiting.

 

Incredible stuff Supertyke...who are you to say others are as thick as f**k ....even more superior people might regard you or I in the same way .

 

Are you trying to tell me that you don't think some people are thick as ****?

 

Who are we to say though.

 

I was agreeing with you that my suggestion would not work and I was expressing my feelings not entering a political debate. I can safely say that I have never been on Facebook and can conclude that I am offended by your comment..
All my posts have clearly been directed at the individuals who voted with racist intentions and didn't understand the subject they were voting on, I also clearly asked that if you didn't agree then please don't respond as I wasn't interested in an opinion of racist idiot. I was letting off steam not setting out on this Barnsley football forum to have a serious political debate or to be insulted because that's not how it's supposed work.

 

I know that Jamo is extremely fed up, and has perhaps used language that he should not have used, but I think that he has a point.

As I said earlier, I am 65 years of age so I am one of the ones that Jamo refers to, except that I voted to remain. Before the vote, and after, I have had a number of conversations with individuals my age and older, and without exception, I have found those conversations to be very, very frustrating. I spoke to two individuals who said that their intention was to vote leave because the Germans had tried twice to subjugate us and were now trying for a different (economic) domination. I have spoken to others who think that we will be going back to their youth, when everything was so much better. I did not argue. I just had to walk away, with steam coming from my ears. You see, they did not vote on the basis of the future. They voted for reasons that were rooted in the past. That is what the REMAIN camp appealed to, and the old are at fault because they did not think about their children, or even their grandchildren. They voted for themselves. They voted for the time when they were younger, when they were fitter and when times were better because of it.

 

I apologise for tarring all of your generation with the same brush. I'm sure you, Sadbrewer and plenty of others of your age/generation aren't *******s, didn't get to swan along in life and had to work hard for what you've got now. I was still incredibly disappointed and upset with how the country and a lot of your generation voted on Thursday.

Having had time to calm down and reflect, I realise that although plenty of people will have voted leave because they're either too stupid to know any better or just plain selfish, that doesn't apply to everyone.

Sorry to anyone else I offended with that post. I still think the country has made the wrong decision but it was wrong of me to resort to generalisations and name-calling.

 

Sorry to anyone else I offended with that post. I still think the country has made the wrong decision but it was wrong of me to resort to generalisations and name-calling.[/QUOTE]

OK Jamo...thanks for that mate....and I agree many of us have fallen out of our trees over it...and I include myself in that...but it has generally been reasoned debate , on the most massive , far reaching question we've been asked in over 40 years... but if I've gone too far at anytime I apologise for that .

As to the old young split...and to the views of older voters...the old saying " there's no fool like an old fool" has a great ring to it....I would though contend those old fools were equally foolish when they were young
I don't believe age makes you more foolish. I think misconceptions and misunderstandings over the real issues are widespread but are not confined to any age demographic.

I would say though that older voters have one thing the young don't and that is 41 years of experience of life within the EU and without . That is not to suggest that age group are in any way better or superior , but it must surely give extra balance and a wider perspective on which to base your final decision . Younger voters though are being expected to take a leap in the dark and threaten a status quo that has existed all their lives...Remain was the safe option which was the same reason I voted to stay in in 1975.
I agree that many will have voted on the ' foreigners out card or the £350m per week rubbish...but simplistic arguments too are not confined to one side. Newsnight featured a spot where young Remainers tried to convince older family members and local residents to switch...one consistent issue the youngsters advanced was that they enjoyed the freedom to travel...almost unaware that people young and old travelled as they liked before the EU , and leaving the EU doesn't not threaten that ...even the right to work and live abroad is not threatened , Brits lived and worked abroad before , and foreigners the same here...there might be bureauocracy but if the need is there it is in everyone's interest to make that happen. Britain has always been open to it and I for one want that to continue , but on the travel issue , even Ed Miliband making the case that you can travel to 27 countries without a visa was unaware you could travel to many more than that before we joined the EU .

I think we need to consider other issues that whilst certainly not exclusive to youth , are concerns I have heard...Green issues , much has been said that the EU has brought...for instance , clean rivers and less pollution ....and Climate change concerns . The UK Govt started cleaning the rivers as far back as 1957...air pollution with the Clean air act as far back as 1956...actually following an American lead before the EU..we are following current EU regulations but they vary little from those in most developed nations .
Animal rights are an issue...but don't forget a UK Parliament outlawed foxhunting..Whilst the EU is quite prepared to accept bullfighting in Spain and the disgusting foie gras practise of force feeding geese and ducks to the point of death ....the live transporting of animals (which the UK wants to ban ) particularly to countries outside the EU where methods of treatment and slaughter would be unacceptable here. The Climate change problem is slightly different ...Europe is dealing with it on our behalf as it wasn't an issue 40 years ago but no longer being a member does not preclude us from supporting the policy of the other 26 .
Perhaps a larger percentage of younger people have taken the safe option...stick with what you know etc..which strangely enough is the opposite of what young people traditionally do...tending to be more rebellious in youth and more conservative with age , but the EU has promoted itself pretty hard over the years with every new development being adorned with the flag of stars....suggesting they have given us this , which is a powerful argument until you consider the idea that the EU actually gives us nothing , not a single penny...we pay a large premium to be in the club...and these projects are built from those premiums.
Your statement '' Having had time to calm down and reflect, I realise that although plenty of people will have voted leave because they're either too stupid to know any better or just plain selfish, that doesn't apply to everyone''...probably applies to voters on both sides..we had the idea advanced on here that one person on here has a friend who'd fallen out with her parents ( who were voting out) because leaving was going to **** her wedding arrangements up...a valid personal interest I'm sure...but hardly one to base your case for voting on the future of the whole nation.
If you think I am wrong , or have missed key points.... I'm certain there's far more to it than just the few observations above , please feel free to debate them

 

I think you are deliberately being obtuse here. One, it hasn't cocked her wedding arrangements up as she doesn't even have any wedding arrangements. Two, there were many more reasons why she was voting to remain - her relationship most definitely not being the most deciding one. Three, I didn't at any time say she had fallen out with them (I don't know if she's even going to bring it up with them, she gets that they are entitled to their own opinion), I said she was 'a bit gutted' that she suspected her parents will have voted leave even though they know it would directly impact on their daughter who lives and works in Europe and their own plans to retire to France in a few years time (therefore not even planning to live in the UK but still choosing to make the UK leave the EU, whilst they go and move to a different EU country). Of course she's going to feel a little hurt when those things are taken into account; there will be very little impact on her parents' lives but a huge impact on hers. You make it sound like she's screaming and balling at her parents because she has to have a pink theme for her wedding rather than green or something.

 

Sorry JamDrop....definitely not being deliberately obtuse...you have read my posts I'm sure...I never post from that position...I haven't read the post since it's original posting...but it came across that way at the time I read it...if I have misconstrued it's intent then I apologise .

 

Well I'm in my sixties and remember pre EU Britain...and it was generally ****...living standards have improved enormously since being a member.

As for the migrant debate, I daresay folk have forgotten the mass influx of West Indians and Asians throughout the 50s and 60s and the same short sighted hatred many Brexiteers now spout.

 

Nice one Jamo.

A bit of advice from an old 'un, don't get upset by politics, no matter how strong your feelings towards a particular issue. Most of those in charge - of any persuasion - don't really give a toss about what you think; they'll promise you the world then deliver naff all unless it benefits themselves.

As you can see, those professing leave are already back tracking. Unfortunately it's happened now and we've all got to live with the consequences.

Good luck for your future,, and try to keep positive. There really are some things you can't do anything about, but there are others you can, concentrate o those.