If we were a selling club, which clearly we are not at the minute, would the manager be the one doing the selling? If it is the board that is doing the selling, presumably because they need to because other revenues are not sufficient to keep the club going, would the subsequent performance of the team be totally the fault of the manager. In other words, was Dario Gradi a good manager because he was able to produce and sell players or was he a bad manager because his team never played at the highest level.
I much prefer to judge a manager on results In which case he's doing OK. Not an abject failure, not a roaring success, but OK.
Redilly, because we are a small club does this mean we have to tolerate Davey spending huge amounts of money on strikers who are less than useless and then getting rid with a blink of an eye. At what point does P.C. take him to task and ask why his purchasing behaviour is costing this club 100 of thousands of pounds. Is the response of P.C. and some of the fans, "we can't continue sacking managers inspite of Davey wasting near on a million pounds".
Success !! unmittigated and without doubt a success. Our main aim each and every year should be to compete and remain in the championship. do not for one mintute think thats easy, with our level of funding and fan base to achieve what we do deserves great credit. yes at times davey is pig headed and often seems to have to know best without seeing the obvious or what others( mainly the fans) see, but he believes in what he is doing at all times. this charateristic alone marks him out as strong willed ( some will say pig headed again) which in todays footballing world cannot be underestimated as a bad thing. Cup runs, championship survival and progression onwards should be seen as something of a major achievement. onto the playing staff, davey and his backroom team of coaches and scouts must attempt to do 2 things. seek out players with potential for small fees or seek out players who are at a good standard from far flung places ,again for small fees.. this in the majority they have achieved, no one gets it right 100% of the time , alex ferguson bought eric djemba djemba and maisimo taibo just to make a point! and yes he also bought cantona for peanuts comparably but its just a snapshot. davey has on the whole improved our squad beyond doubt and with the further addition of 2 to 3 players could progress to genuine play off contenders, a quote springs to mind at this stage "punching above our weight" DAVEY OUT !!
Surley it comes down to quality not the value? If we had a team full of 30 somethings all of high quality but not much value and we were a high in the league table your idea doesn't add up. He's still got a job despite short sighted fans on his back, so he must be doing something right.
Baskerville. I think you are going over the top with this wasting of hundreds of thousands of pounds. I think his good signings way outweigh his bad signings and tell me a manager who's signings all come off.I think the problem is Davey was not wanted from the begining because he was not a 'name' and for some people he will never do anything right well ever he is at Oakwell.
How do you normally judge quality. Is quality solely your own opinion or is it a general consensus. If more than one person wants to purchase something then the value of that item would be higher. It is a law of economics called the law of supply and demand. If a footballer has more quality, his services will be in demand and, provided he is under contract, his price will rise. However, if he is over 33 say, he has a limited shelflife and his quality is likely to diminish, so his value is lower. In other words, if you fill your team with over 33's in the short term your team may well improve. However, in the longer term their performance will diminish and they will all retire together with no second hand value. The policy is one that may be successful in the short term but which is a disaster over the long term.
If you judge only by results then, almost by definition, a manager is only as good as his last result. This is the breeding ground for short-termism which in turn leads to the constant demands for a manager to leave. Results lead to pressure being exerted by fans upon boards to sack perfectly good managers who for years have been beating the odds to keep teams with below average attendances in leagues that are above their natural position. Improving the value of the team measured in the way that I have indicated allows the marketplace to judge the success of a manager rather than the fickle fans. Sacking a manager costs a lot of money. Not only does the out going manager and his staff have to be compensated but often the new man's former employers demand compensation as well. The new man wants his own players who are often no better than the ones already at the club. In the end, there is no guarantees that given the same market conditions, the new man will be any better than the old, indeed the experience of most clubs is entirely the opposite. And yet weak boards continue to let fickle fans run their football clubs. Absolute madness.
So what you seem to be saying is... That results really are of no consequence whatsoever. All we should be looking to achieve come the end of the season, is a squad that is worth more than the one we had at the start of the season. I'm sure if you put this suggestion to the powers that be they will be overwhelmed by it. Just think, they wont need to have referees anymore because they wont really have to play any more silly games of football. It will just be like a new type of Monopoly. The clubs will be much happier as well. They wont have to invest in big Stadia anymore because they wont be required, it can all be played on a big board on the Chairmans desk. So they will have more money to spend on players, boosting the value of their squad. The more I think about it, the more I think you're on to a winner with this. Come next Christmas, you could be a multi-millionaire, with all the spin off games that the fans who used to go and watch football matches, will be buying, just to give them something to do on a weekend. The only problem might be with the likes of FM09, because in a way they are already doing it.
To be honest mate I think you're talking a load of old nonsense. I'll continue to judge my team on how it's doing in the league, which is entirely quantifiable, rather than some arbitrary figure based entirely on a subjective view of the worth of a squad of players.
No. What I am saying is that if you improve the playing squad year on year you will eventually achieve success on the field of play. I do not expect anyone to go to a match and say that they have lost but never mind the squad has improved. What I do say is that if the squad is getting better then supporters should take this into account in their assessment of the performance of their manager and that the board should be prepared to support their man in spite of the demands of supporters who cannot see the longer view.
Fair enough. I will continue to take the view that we should not change managers based on bad luck, long injury lists and poor refereeing decisions.
As someone who has recently retired, I have a lot of spare time but I would have to have found the secret of eternal life to apply that formula to deciding whether Davey is a success or not. That may be the way an accountant would view him but surely not supporters? When you have a pint and reflect on the 'good times' - it is the wins at Anfield and beating Chelsea which will come to mind - even the trip to Wembley! I certainly won't be running through the balance sheets! I don't know what criteria was set for him personally when he took the job....Promotion? Avoid relegation? who knows?
That still suggests to me that results aren't important. Squad value is paramount and results are a secondary issue. To suggest that by spending more on players will automatically improve your results, is IMHO total hogwash. Ask Mark Hughes! ask most BFC supporters! If we are to believe your ramblings, our squad has improved dramatically, so why haven't the results improved equally dramatically.
A lot of people are saying "with our limited funds" How limited are we compared to other clubs? Hume £1.2 million, Mostto, Christensen, ODJE, Macken - all totalling around the 1 million mark or just above so thats between £2million and £2.5 million spent on our forward line alone in the last couple of seasons. Have any of the following clubs spent like this in recent seasons? Doncaster Pigs Coventry Charlton Southampton Blackpool Plymouth Watford Although we aren't the big spenders in the league l wouldn't say we have been as limited as the above clubs with our funds to spend.
RE: A lot of people are saying "with our limited funds" charlton brought Andy Gray and the bloke from Crewe didnt they?
I don't like the implication that I am constantly haranguing the board to change our manager. I do not want Simon Davey sacked. I have never wanted Simon Davey sacked. I didn't want Andy Ritchie sacked either as it goes. Your model of manager success does not make you a better fan and does not mean you are more patient with a manager. I don't change my mind every game after every result. I look at results over a much longer period of time. As such, Simon Davey deserves to keep his job.
Coventry bought Freddy Eastwood & Clinton Morrison. Plymouth broke their transfer record & signed Mpenza while making him the highest earner in the clubs history.
Don't forget the impact of large signing on fees and wages too. Plus we had to sign an entirely new set of forwards as those that got us promoted weren't good enough at this level. The clubs you mention might not have spent in the summer but have ahd considerable investment over a period of time Cov - Morrison, Eastwood Charlton - Gray, Varney Wednesday - Jeffers, Burton, Tudgay, Clarke, Sodje (all cost money or have big wages and are still crap) Plymouth - McLean, Mpenza Watford - Kabba (£750k, Priskin £1m, Hoskins £1.2m combined with Williamson), Smith £500k
Plymouth, Ebanks-Blake sold for 1.5 million so that covers that fee. We have spent over a couple of a million in the past two years and who have we balanced off against this? the sale of Howard £500,000?