So it looks like Roe v Wade is going to be overturned in the USA

I mean, this might be a bit radical as a male thought goes.... but maybe we should simply leave it to women to decide and guide on this issue?

 

Have you got a valid answer for how a woman you’ve never met having an abortion, even if it is for convenience, affects you or anybody else?

 

How many women do you think seriously consider abortion as an alternative to contraception?

How many women do you think go skipping off to the abortion clinic just because they can?

To suggest abortion is just another option, or an easy way out is cheap and misogynistic.

Abortion always has been, and always should be, a last resort. However, the right to make that choice should be with the person that has to go through pregnancy and labour, and the person that would ultimately be laden with a child they may not want, or be in a position to care for.

The vast majority of abortions in the UK (88% in 2020) take place between weeks 3-9 of gestation. During that time the ‘child’ is still an embryo the size of a green olive with a birth survival rate of 0%

 

Last post from me, and this is for all those who are arguing that as a man I need to keep quiet on the subject, just because I'm a man.

If we want to say that people can only discuss things that are personally relevant to them then we pretty soon end up in a situation where no-one could ever discuss anything -
"sorry you can't talk about disability support because you're not disabled"
"I suffer from mental health disability"
"oh well its not mental health disability we're discussing, so you still can't"
and so it goes on.

The idea that men can't meaningfully contribute to the abortion debate, because they are men, is frankly ridiculous.

 

Of course you can have an opinion, and of course you can share it, and of course you can partake in any given debate on such a thing. But.... in any given debate, depending on the topic, we each also have to concede that there will be some people much better placed to give views and air them and have greater weight and significance attached to them.

In this case, I think women have the very obvious right to say they have a greater weight of authority on the topic.

 

That's not what I was saying at all, but sure carry on and ignore it.

My point is, that even accepting your argument as 100% factual (which it isn't anyway), that women use abortion as contraceptive or for convenience.

Why does it matter? It's her decision to make and 100% her choice. It doesn't matter in the slightest the reason she has for wanting/needing an abortion.

 

Ignore not in the right spot

 

What we are debating on here is whether or not abortion should be legal and women have the choice.

What I find beyond the pale is the argument that suggests they shouldn’t have such a choice. Who are we to dictate that to other people?

There is probably some validity in what you are trying to say, abortion could be argued to not ideally be used as a regular contraception form. (I’d say I’d still want the choice to not bring a life into the world be there for the woman). But you can take a different view on that.

But I don’t go along with the convenience argument. There will likely, yes, be a small minority that genuinely didn’t give it a second’s thought before or after - but I would wager that the vast majority of women who have an abortion will have agonised over their choice, and as mentioned earlier in the thread will suffer the consequence of their choice in terms of guilt and anguish. Making generalisations suggesting they do it out of ‘convenience’ is what I take exception to. I doubt very many find any part of it convenient.

Feel free to correct me, but the rhetoric from your argument appears to be ‘you’ve made you bed, lie in it’ - if they made the choice to get pregnant (or at least didn’t actively try to avoid it) then they shouldn’t have the option to terminate the pregnancy - save for where it is necessary (you don’t actually specify what necessary means to you).

You are entitled to your opinion and to voice it - but we also have the right to question it, especially when such judgemental and generalising language and tone is used.

To go back to your first post, to paraphrase, you say it is difficult to argue strongly for or against.

I differ here. It isn’t difficult at all. I am 100% in favour of abortion being legal and available.

That doesn’t mean I think I would agree with every choice made or that I’d do the same. There are very few situations in which I personally would want my wife to have an abortion, despite the fact I feel too old to be a dad again (I’m not 40 yet but feel older!). We probably wouldn’t do that if she fell pregnant again, except in extreme circumstances (I.e a serious medical issue either for her or the foetus). But whilst I’m sure she’d speak to me it would be up to her, I couldn’t force her one way or the other and I wouldn’t want to.

That is my point. It isn’t about whether I think someone should have an abortion in any given situation. It isn’t really about whether I or you agree with it generally.

It is solely about whether any individual should be in the position of either a)breaking the law and risking their health to terminate an unwanted pregnancy under the radar, or b) be forced to carry a child to full term, accepting all the permanent physical changes to their body that entails as well as untold mental distress - and to then have to bring up that said child despite having no wish to be a parent, or to suffer the anguish of giving the child up. Removing the choice and criminalising abortion would do all of that. We don’t have the right to inflict that on anybody.

 

Course it matter, in certain parts of the world, granted not in this country so far thankfully based on the evidence we have, people have sex-selection abortions, does that matter to anyone other then the woman having the abortion? Yes, I'm afraid it does.

 

Yes in theory but how often does that happen?

 

why should a woman be forced to endure a 9 month pregnancy she doesn't want with all the physical , emotional and financial impacts that brings with it?

 

Interesting!

 

I agree, but it's also unfair when people apply the same generalisation to pro-life people too: 'they only care until the woman has the baby and then they stop caring.'

 

I don't know if your comment is sincere but I'm describing something that has actually transpired. And the support, let me tell you, is non-existent. She has to live with the guilt.

 

I know women who have had abortions and were perfectly ok with their choice and suffer no guilt years afterwards. No regrets, some already had children, others went on to have them. some as far as I know didn't have any.Maybe if abortion wasn't demonized the "guilt "wouldnt be there.

 

I suppose it's something that doesn't get talked about but clearly some women suffer afterwards. It should be part of the conversation and support should be provided when needed.

 

Support should definitely be there.