So we’re officially no longer part of the Nice family

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Loko the Tyke, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Well-Known Member

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    This could now be the time to seal the deal at Partick..
     
  2. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I think this was genuinely the plan but being in League One the gap was too big from us to Nice for there to be any kind of mutual benefit. GG mentioned that Championship stability would open up the doors to a closer working relationship, but we're only three months in to being a Championship club so I think it's a case of the offer being made/being accepted and the hostility of the Nice fan base not allowing that to happen. We did get to use their training facilities which are meant to be pretty swish - never had that before.

    They've only owned the club for 18 months but it feels like positive steps have been made off the field (in my eyes anyway). Media improvements, a Player's Lounge, Family Zones x 2, FanZone, £50k investment in a training facility or something if I remember rightly, plus the work within the concourses, etc. Could easily all be spin (like the infamous 'best transfer window ever'), but record breaking sponsorship deals and stocking levels of the new shirts seem to be a lot better than previous years.

    Could be wrong on the above though, and certainly some of it would have happened regardless of new owners - especially the work on the concourses with various Fan Projects but at least they continued to facilitate this happening. If only the product on the pitch had started the season a bit better ................
     
  3. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    I recall some time back Whitey saying that much of what was happening (such as fan zones, hall of fame and tarting up the concourses) was already in the pipeline and had been planned for a long time. So if you take those aspects out, then consider the fantastic media team has been bolstered again following promotion after relegation in the new owners first part season of their 20 month tenure so far.

    Lets also be frank and say they assisted the relegation from the championship last time with the "crazy" Morais appointment.

    I wouldn't dine out too much on the record breaking sponsor deals. I'd be interested to know how far behind all other clubs we are with main sponsors, and what the uplift was from CK Becketts time. After such a long run of deals and with natural inflation, you'd hope whatever deal you sign is the next best ever amount. But if you've got the actual contractual figure comparisons, I think we'd all find that very interesting instead of the clubs soundbite.

    I'd have loved the product to be much better, but sadly, its actually worse than I expected. I fancied us to go down (23rd I thought after the window closed) but it's not surprising is it considering? Fingers crossed the squad can learn uber fast before confidence is totally crushed.

    But overall, I still don't understand what the owners actually want and what their plan is. A plan needs an objective. The objective doesn't seem to have been expressed, so a conveyor belt of player sales and very young inexperienced players to replace is just an action, without the expression of objective and purpose.

    Off the field... I actually thought we'd have seen more this close season. I'm still shocked painting the East Stand has been such a tough job. And that nothing has been mentioned at all about the ground (ownership wholly or in part) or investment on our academy (one of the few things they implied from their approach at Nice).

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not negative about the owners. But I don't understand their motives, either expressed, or judged by action. And until their actions demonstrate what their intent is, or they openly admit their intentions, then I think we really should all rightly be cautious about this period of our club.

    It could be great. It could be disastrous.
     
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  4. anstonred

    anstonred Well-Known Member

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    If Jim Ratcliffe tried to buy Bolton or Bury, it’d probably be so he could frack on the pitch!
     
  5. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Agree with most of what you said. I think it's harsh to criticise owners in any business though who make things happen that were discussed or in the pipeline before they took over. You still need to facilitate that happening, and our first meeting on the Fan Zone was with the new owners and it wasn't discussed with us under the previous regime (doesn't mean it wasn't discussed internally by the way).

    The Player's Lounge and £50k investment was new though, and creating a second Family Zone because of the success of the East Stand Upper is from the current owners/team. Again though, this doesn't have to be at the direction of the owners and will be down to some of the people who work at Oakwell and are passionate about improving things.
     
  6. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    The people who "do the doing" though, they are still largely the same people aren't they? So in terms of media, commercial and operations (GG's replacement aside) we've still the same functions operating to the same sort of degree as before, just we have different decision makers (if they get hands on at all?). And of course, any little improvement is a good thing.

    £50k isn't a lot of money in this day and age. How much was spent following the john stones sale, didn't Flitcroft insist on improvements there as part of his longer term deal following the great escape?

    From the outside looking in, my perception is that in terms of some of the smaller things, we're travelling in the right direction. The fans zone is certainly a better step forward and hats off so far. As others have said, a cold February night is going to be a challenge, but I hope the right steps can be found (and please don't use those outdoor heaters, they pollute like crazy). The concourses are better (though i've not seen the east stand as yet) and cant criticise increasing family areas.

    But any small improvement, even dozens of them, will often be missed if there are bigger issues at play, such as the ground, training complex, recruitment and retention strategy. And as yet, they are either questionable or unknown.
     
  7. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Again, don't disagree with a lot of what you've said. But there's always two ways to look at things; either you think some of the improvements and updates would have happened anyway, or you credit the new owners for facilitating them. Appears you fall in to the former and I'm probably leaning to the latter but not massively.

    I also think 18 months is an incredibly short amount of time from a business perspective. Especially in a business such as football that has involved a promotion and relegation - some of which was arguably of their own doing as you've mentioned with the mental appointment of Morais.
     
  8. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    I thought i'd said the smaller improvements are positive things? Whether they orchestrated or stood aside to allow them to continue, its all heading in the right direction.

    20 months is a fairly short time. But in a way, given they had a full year to plan what they were going to do in the event of promotion, I'm very surprised we've heard very little on increasing capacity, investing in the training facilities a la Nice, ownership of the ground, and how to generate significantly better revenues from sponsorship and overseas audiences.

    That lack of communication/progress leaves a very big echo chamber at the moment, which is consumed by what happens on the pitch.

    So just to confirm my personal standpoint. Small develops, can't argue about to date (whether started before or after the Conway/Lee tenure), big issues... a smidge concerned and somewhat disappointed.
     
  9. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Paul Conway talked about redeveloping the West Stand at the FanZone on Saturday. Long term project and aspiration, but a new stand with facilities for children, a bar that looks out on to the pitch that opens more often than just Match Days, etc.

    The questions around their motives I see as really valid as all responses to that are pure guess work as we haven't heard an official response. But personally I don't see this big echo chamber you describe. They might not have gone in to specifics but they've been clear on increased revenue from much improved commercial acumen, a better Match Day experience, objectives of becoming an established Championship team, etc.
     
  10. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    But this is it isn't it. Nice was a long term project in their words. And less than 4 years they've sold it. So how can there be implicit trust of what will follow, when, and for what purpose.

    I don't know if they realise this, but the more hyperbole that fails to turn out to be true, the less the next hyperbolic statement will ring true.

    Did he say tehy owned the ground yet? Or part of it? or when? And what they are going to do with it when they do? or have they given up on that? Likewise with a training complex that was implied?

    Was their video footage of his talk? I find it disappointing there aren't more official broadcasts or updates from them. I understand they often talk to a handful of people hear and there, but that doesn't feel right to me. if the journey they profess to take us on is so wondrous, then share it with us so we can get excited and buy into it too.

    As I touched on before, with nothing being communicated about big things, all that is left is the pitch and when its going as badly as it has so far, that's going to resonate loudly until performances (let alone results) turn.
     
  11. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    There was footage of this talk and it was posted on the BBS from the Reds Report YouTube channel so available to all. Conway has also appeared on their Podcast I think, as well as with the guys on Tykes TV or whatever it is called - again available to all. Just like the Radio Sheffield interviews have been there for all to hear and the script of the last Fans Forum was posted on the BBS. Hardly being secretive and the FanZone interview on Saturday was in front of c.500 people.

    All your comments on ownership of the ground are valid, but they're the same questions we were asking when Patrick was in charge right? As with Patrick we'd get snippets of intent, but football clubs rightly or wrongly aren't 100% transparent and don't update the fan base on absolutely everything. Unless a reporter asks your questions, in that same sequence, we'll likely never get a full response. Again, rightly or wrongly depending on your personal view.

    Needing an update on training facilities is a new one to me. Yes they mentioned it, but am I sat here desperate for an update? Personally no, which is why I don't see this echo chamber of communications like you describe. That's just my stance though and as I've said in every reply your questions are valid, but maybe we expect a little too much sometimes? Maybe I spend way too much time online but I don't feel like the new owners don't communicate.
     
  12. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    My single expectation is honesty and a good degree of openness from them. I have insufficient examples to have been able to form that so far. The only coverage i've seen from the owners in the 20 months so far is the opening presser (which gave no detail on ownership structure or that the purchasing vehicle was in a territory that's pretty difficult to find accounts for) and then I think there was a 3-4 minute one with them sitting in the old directors box. Nothing else that i'm aware of has been shared in official channels, ifollow included. And really, the owners should be channelling content and information through its own channels. Not to 50 people through a kid in his bedroom. Not around 3% of the crowd in the fanzone, or to a few passers by on their travels.

    I recall Patrick giving some very lengthy q&a's, that were recorded and shared in front of good numbers, so although Patrick was pretty quiet, he did give info in pretty honest (maybe too much so) detail. And I respected that. I didn't personally need to know too much from him as we had a direction of travel, we knew the situation. But we don't with these new owners do we? They've bought the club and so far despite saying a dozen times at their unveiling, they weren't going to do anything crazy, they appointed Morais and then failed to replace experienced players before heralding it the best window ever. The crazy scale o'meter thinks some craziness has occurred ;-)

    I would simply like to know why they bought the club, and what their actual plan is. And that entails ground and training side of the set up, as I said before, they commented on the Nice facilities a lot.

    But anyway, it will be what it will be.

    I'm more concerned than hopeful. Particularly given how it went very sour very quickly at Nice and the questions of funding of the purchase cost at crazy lending rates. We'll see what is further disclosed relating the Barclays charge soon too I'd hope.
     
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  13. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    My last reply on this one as we'll go round in circles, but in response:

    1) Because you don't seek out non-official channels doesn't mean the information isn't out there. It is! Why not embrace it?
    2) 50 people through a kid in his bedroom isn't a fair assessment of Tykes TV or the Reds Report - both sets of fans are doing a great job at creating content for fans to enjoy
    3) The new owners have given some lengthy Q&As to the same audiences as Patrick. Granted we don't have the 'secret' Facebook posts we used to get, but that was probably a step too far in open comms. Also, 500 people on a Match Day is larger than any audience we managed to get for all previous events with players, managers, and owners
     
  14. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    1. So I have to find multiple places that I don't even know exist for nuggets of information when the club has twitter, its website and ifollow which can deliver video, audio and text based information. Odd this news wouldn't be magnified and shared through official channels. but hey ho, it is what it is.
    2. A tiny proportion of fans compared to the whole supporter base though, no? So why would it be shared in isolation, but not in completeness? That's a pretty fair question I would have thought.
    3. Just watched the snippet.... didn't really say much at all sadly. And if they do some big lengthy q&a's. get them streamed like Patrick allowed. Not difficult technology to stream it or at a minimum video it to be watched later, even just on ifollow if they want to generate some good content.
     

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