i'v e looked at this so many times, and the numbers just never seem to stack up. so many caveats to savings being 'as advertised'. ROI never comes out <10 years. I might be dead then.
I think much of the payback now is simply down to becoming as self-sufficient as possible to minimise the impact of the next Government ****-up. The fundamental issue is that those worst impacted have least opportunity to do so, given the up-front costs and the need to own your own home to get the benefit. Until a few months ago I felt like you, but the landscape has changed so quickly now that it's become something of a no-brainer for us (which might not be the same for anyone else - it's very much based on individual household situations).
When you say with battery what is the capacity as that is pretty key? In winter in Northern Europe you are looking in November to March at long dark nights where the panels do not generate a lot AND you will soon run out of battery during the night unless you have at least 10 Kwh storage capacity (albeit using low tariff LX) I do remember a thread on here several week ago regarding using low tariff electric to charge up batteries for daytime use but did not fully understand the logic or the maths involved in that. I am unclear as to whether you get the same amount of energy back from a battery as is needed to fully charge it from the grid I know where we live is not a fair comparison but we are waiting for our system we signed up for in August with EoN ...(long waiting list) 6.8 Kwh panels with optimisers, 1o Kwh storage and, importantly, a hybrid air heat pump /GPL gas boiler for our underfloor system. The latter is costing around 6.5k euros (70% subsidised)to replace the current condensing boiler running on GPL. The cos for teh Solar system (exc. the hybrid heat pump system) t is around 13500 euros with 50% Ecobonus (an Italian Govt subsidy ) otherwise it would be a prohibitive 45k+ but that also includes fitting a 'salva vita' system - which is now law in our region - a secure cable system on the roof which workers attach themselves to like climbers do to prevent falls . We also get 2 years of 'free' electricity as part of the deal and EoN still offer the 'buyback' of surplus electric (although at a very low rate compared to the charge for grid electricity used). The main benefits we get in Italy compared to UK from going solar are slightly shorter winter nights here being further South, generally more sunshine throughout the year, and the fact that GPL gas is extortionate (we don't have access to town gas being rural) . We currently are using our woodburners to keep most of the the house warm without using too much gas like most rural Italians do. Unlike most Italian farmhouses which are pretty cold in winter months we had a lot of insulation added when we restored the house. Even with that though the gas and electric bills are eye wateringly expensive and make UK prices (even with the latest increases look like a bargain). The calculations show 'break even' at 6 years at a conservative estimate and possibly less given how inflation is soaring here. It is the heat pump (which even works when outside temperatures drop to -5C) where our greatest savings will be since we will use far less GPL December, January and February we can easily burn through 1k euros worth of gas even with the wood burners. In summary, your cost/ benefit ratio sounds a bit iffy, but I am sure you will get a good idea of how viable it is from some on here who have solar in the UK EDIT: Two hidden non monetary benefits are that a) you ARE helping the environment however small a contribution it may be but the more people who come off the grid and use renewables the better. b) Two fingers up to Putin especially here in Italy which has, until now, been heavily reliant on Russian gas and oil.
The battery is 5kWh and the system is designed to only charge from the grid at a night cheap rate and be discharged during the day (in winter to supplement the solar panels). Obviously when the panels are generating sufficiently, the battery will be charged by them and any surplus power will go to the grid. I totally agree with your edit, as a member of the Green Party, I see it as a long term benefit albeit at significant initial monetary cost to us (although somewhat cheaper than buying an EV). Any shift away from burning gas has to be the right thing to do. I'd like to get away from gas central heating but the electric alternatives are eye-wateringly expensive, I think my best option is to reduce gas usage by thoroughly insulating the house, a project for next summer I think. In the UK, gas boilers are second only to internal combustion powered vehicles for CO2 production.
'Insulation!', 'Insulation!', 'Insulation!' is absolutely the way to go. When we restored the ruin, we *insisted on extra roof insulation and extra wall insulation on the brick built part(albeit it did reduce the internal room sizes a bit) but most of the house has very thick walls anyway. However having stayed in Italian houses in October and February months whilst house hunting and during the restoration (agriturismos, B&Bs etc where they had restored barns etc and not bothered with much roof insulation ) we found as soon as the sun went down it was bloody freezing. We are able to pretty much keep the house around 18-19 degrees upstairs with heating only on 3 hours or so a day (albeit with help from heat rising from downstairs wood burners). Dread to think of cost of gas if we hadn't. The insulation and small windows also helps keep it all a bit cooler in summer as well. * The architect forgot and we almost had to resubmit plans as it would have taken us 10cm over the approved external height of the house during the rebuild. In the end we compromised and sacrificed the traditional wooden beams and cross beams ceilings on the 1st floor to save height otherwise it would have taken a year to resubmit and planning costs would have cost well over 2k more!!
