Sollbauer stat.

I don't live in a mansion but I dont yo yo between a big house and a small one. I've gone from a cheaper house to a more expensive one in my lifetime. If I wanted a mansion I would buy a house that wanted work, do it up sell for a profit , then repeat with a more valuable house. I wouldnt sell any of these houses for below market value!

 

Relax, let yourself go. You have to enjoy moments like these!

 

As on previous occasions though Red Rain, you take an extreme example to illustrate your point. Wolvestyke may not live in a mansion with 60 acres of grounds, but how many people (at least up until the financial crash of 2008) stretched themselves by taking on a large mortgage to move up the property ladder and eventually enjoy a better lifestyle? I know I did and my parents did - to our longer term advantage. If we want to ever move to a sustainable Championship position (and I know you are patient!) then at some point we will need to move in the direction of paying Championship wages. That doesn't mean spending like Brentford or some of the other so-called bigger clubs in our division, but it does mean attempting to hold on to our better players, or at the very least not allowing them to leave whilst still in contract until a suitable replacement has been secured. As pointed out elsewhere, we only secured Sollbauer in January, and that will ultimately have cost us our Championship place.

 

Are you absolutely sure that you are more qualified to determine the value of a player than those who do the job on a day to day basis, or the marketplace, which determines who is prepared to pay the highest price?

 

No I'm not but I'd have demanded more for Pinnock, that's for sure.

 

How much money would you be prepared to put into the club in order to cover the losses that are bound the ensue from a change in policy, and how long are you prepared to continue to do so?

I read very little about how under priced our season tickets are. I do however read lots about how people cannot afford the prices the club charge. Equally, I read lots of rants about how the owners are testing their loyalty, and how they will not be renewing their season tickets. I know that season tickets are not cheap, and if the expenses is not affordable due to personal circumstances, I would be the last to suggest that an individual should buy a season ticket rather than pay for something that benefits his family. However, if an individual can afford the season ticket, and is withdrawing his support in order to make a point, then I would question whether it is right for that individual to question why the owner is not putting more money into the club. I am not making any personal point here. It is just a general one about the way fans always see things as someone else's fault.

 

I agree with a lot of this but I think you must be one of the few who didn't/ doesn't think the owners decisions in the summer was like tying our hands behind our backs.

 

I smiled as I read your post RR - I think we're returning to a conversation we had in a thread late last year. I'm not advocating living beyond our means. And I agree with the strategy of buying young players and selling them on for profit. Just not every player as we did last summer! My firm view is that signing 2/3/4 less youngsters and instead getting in a couple of more experienced players would have improved results and resulted in faster development of the youngsters we have. This thread is about how we're reaping the benefits of have Michael Sollbauer at the moment. We're actually worse off now than we would've been had we done that because we were forced to get him and Ritzmaier in, in January so we have all the youngsters AND their additional expense. It's been said many times by others but our scattergun approach to signing youth in the summer did not adequately equip us to compete.

 

You don't sell your mansion (Pinnock) for a third of it's market value, go and live in a tent for six months, realise you are in danger of dying of pneumonia, only then to try & buy a 3 bed semi, with a nice garden.

 

We all spoke about the E word. Every one of us. It was blatantly apparent it was required.

Tiler wouldn't have been 1.5 million, Taggart wouldn't have had the career he had, Morgan etc etc without the Futchers, De Zeeuws and Flemings of our history.

And to compliment my thoughts the aforementioned oldies would probably not have the extra 2-3 seasons added and extended to their careers if the young UN's weren't around them.

 

The point that many make is that we should not sell players who are successful. I will leave the point that almost every club has to do so, and I will continue with the argument, taking it to an extreme in order to illustrate my point.

Let us say that we are starting from scratch with a new policy. Let us say that we are not going to sell players as they enter the final year of their contracts. Let us also say that we decide to spend a budget of £20m on new and experienced players who are all on 4 year contracts, and that this increase in budget increases our annual loss before player sales from its current £4m to say £14m (ie an additional £10m per annum to cover higher player wages. Let us further agree that the policy is successful, and that it keeps us in the Championship for the full 4 years of those contracts saving the club having to forego Championship additional revenue of £6m less £2m saving on lower player wages for 3 of those years. Let us have a look at the effect on finances at the end of that 4 years.

Total losses over 4 years based upon current policy £0

Transfer fees =£20m
Loss on transfer fees not recouped on outgoing players £4m per year x 4 =£16m
Loss because of higher player pay £10m per year x 4 =£40m

Increase in losses due to change in policy = £76m
Less saving in lost Championship revenue £4m per year x 3 = £12m

Net increase in losses due to change in policy= £64m

At the end of that 4 years, the club has had to find additional finance at a cost of £64m. As if that was not bad enough, it now has to find another £20m to replace the players who have left the club at the end of their contracts, and who were too old to sell on for a profit because we bought experience.

Look, I know that this is extreme, but it is extreme because I wanted to illustrate a point, and it is no more extreme than the actual policy and consequent financial records of many Championship teams.

 

Any other experienced centre half is a bit vague. There’s some f*cking awful players around, that are living off their ‘experience’. It helped that we added one with some quality.

 

I don't understand why you are posting that in response to my post RR as mine didn't refer to selling players. But, in response to yours, the fact that you present an extreme picture undermines it. No-one is suggesting such a policy, merely tweaking the one we adopted. There is room (and a requirement imo) for flexibility. Finally, influenced presumably by GS, the owners have introduced some flexibility by signing Sollbauer and Ritzmaier in January - neither of whom are on 4 year contracts like many of the younger players signed in the summer.

Your post almost suggests that you feel their signings were a mistake as they were not consistent with only signing young players. Is that the case?

 

My gripe is not about putting money into the club. It is about taking steps to retain players we have brought along. Or at the very least not parting with such players (in contract) until we have obtained suitable replacements. And do owners ever put their own money in?

 

And there is no middle way?

 

Not specifically referring to BFC, but ownership of football clubs is an expensive business.
A friend of mine is an accountant who has represented several football clubs and some very well known figures in the game....the accountancy in joke is....how to become a millionaire from football....be a billionaire and buy a football club.

 

I posted the response in order to get you (and the rest of the BBS for that matter) to look honestly at the cost of doing what the majority are arguing for. I posted an extreme example because I wanted people to substitute their own figures for mine in order to find out whether their suggestions are practicable. You were not my prime target. I am disappointed that you have not taken my challenge on, but have instead asked me a question. Well I do not intend to avoid your question. I am happy with Sollbauer. He is a good acquisition and will steady the ship for 2 years whilst the others are ready. I am not happy with Ritzmaier. I do not know what he adds to the team. Ludewig looks as though he would be a good permanent acquisition, but he could have been acquired as part of our original plan.

 

I'm sure there is, but what is it, and have you costed it.

 

Red Rain, NOBODY is advocating spending beyond our means!

What we're saying is that we should have signed an experienced (but cheaper) player like Sollbauer back in the summer. Or, even better, not sold Pinnock for 2-3m and instead saved 7 million from relegation (which we might actually luckily escape now, but wouldn't have without Covid giving us this chance to reset), plus the added value to our other young players from not having been in an embarassing team all year.

We all agree with the strategy, just think that you can't throw 11 21 year olds out in the Championship - you'll lose.