Taking the knee

So the question from that would be why do BAME not do their coaching badges..

No brainer as to why they do not get a managers job otherwise.. Pretty sure to have the job it is a requirement isn't it?

 

I've never suggested they do. It was and remains a question and an example as to a potential reason why black coaches are under represented in coaching.

If 40% of your shop floor staff are BAME and a total of 66% of your staff have been bussed in from another region on fixed term contracts and return when they expire, how many BAME staff are left who you could evaluate for promotion?

If your floor staff regardless of ethnicity all have access to the management training guides from and they for whatever reason do not take advantage of these, who is at fault? The floor staff or management? A combination of the two?

Theres lots of questions however at the minute it seems to be a one way street. Questions need to be asked a to why those who have the chance to do the FA courses dont. They are not a closed shop through the lower levels. Far from. Its only demands at the top end thats restrictive but not enough to restrict you at grass roots academy level. Getting your feet under the table and progressing naturally through to the top badges.

 

I believe they have to have minimum UEFA pro licence for Premier League, not sure about lower down, but suspect so.

The report I read said players was felt to have limited opportunities for identification, selection, mentoring and financial support to access and complete high level coach education courses and lack of support from Senior white coaches at clubs, there is also a comment about FA Coach educators(what ever they are) having a perceived preference to high profile white players, this maybe goes some way to explain why there is such a drop out from FA courses to UEFA(although white drops out might be similar).
Bear in mind this report was written in 2014, so whilst I doubt numbers would have changed much, hopefully attitudes slowly are.

 

As I said before, I don't converse with racists.

You lost your chance of a civil response when you spoke of Fried Chicken, Illiterate Delroys, druge dealers and the other racist bile in your posts.

 

Nice one.

Continue to spout your rhetoric then, without showing a willingness to educate yourself.

And we wonder why there's still an issue in this country.

 

There should probably be at least on BAME name on the lists though. When I've read articles about black coaches and managers the theme always used to be they seldom got a response to an application, let alone an interview. Therein lies your aptitude problem - why follow a path if you know full well it won't get you anywhere, mainly due I guess you would call it sub conscious bias if one were to be kind.

 

It’s simple, you choose the best candidate for the job. I hate this phrase ‘positive discrimination, how can any discrimination be positive ? You shouldn't be forced to get your ‘BAME count’ up when recruiting, you just choose the best candidate. The new phrase is of course ‘unconscious bias’ the implication being that you are after all a racist -but you just don’t know it. So we can’t win; we may recruit a BAME candidate because the directors want us to get our count up but in order to do so we have to discriminate against a more suitable white candidate. You can set the white candidate on if you’re determined to do so but then you’ll be accused of ‘unconscious bias’ against the BAME candidate. Can’t do right for doing wrong. Why aren't there more black managers ? Who knows, there’s no evidence that discrimination is the cause, but lets blame it anyway.

 

I'm very uncomfortable with positive discrimination too. As a knee jerk reaction I'm against it. The best candidate SHOULD in normal circumstances get the job.
However, I think to actually initiate change it sometimes needs to be used though only up to the point where thinking has been changed.
There's loads of examples where it has been necessary. Women MPs. Women in senior managerial positions etc.
If there's a glass ceiling it may need extreme measures to break it.
As for BAME representation in football management and coaching I've got no definitive explanation of the imbalance. My guess is that it's more likely to be influenced by conscience or unconscious prejudice than by black players preferring to "rot in the sun".
Let's be honest football is a pretty repressed and conservative environment. There's no player who has felt able to come out as gay as yet and it's not that long since the likes of Ron Atkinson were mouthing their prejudices against black players as being lazy etc.

 

That's true but at the same time I think football club owners have shown they will employ anyone who they think gives them the highest chance of success. Joey Barton for example, ched Evans (being stood by) another. There are so many black players in English football, if the owners were racist I don't understand why they would employ them. There's no logic that suggests that an owner would ignore his racist views in favour of greed and success to sign a black player but wouldn't do the same with a coach.

I think we need to see the qualification levels of former players in order to better get a more complete picture and only then can we start to see what the problem is if indeed there is one.

 

Hmm, well I agree owners will do what it takes but I definitely think there has been in the past if, hopefully less so now, a perception that black players are athletic but not bright enough to manage.
I'm sure there are other factors but, once again, football is not an enlightened environment and never has been. If it were there would be hundreds of openly gay players.

 

Maybe that's the point, owners would rather go with what they know than take a punt, better have racist thug Barton than try a black manager

 

i honestly never realised that black players were mentally lacking mansfield,i did ask you to enlighten me and now you have.
I dont see Sterling as thick to be honest and if he decides to go into management i wish him well but i do wonder what your reaction would have been if i'd labled him in the same way as you labled rooney.

 

thanks for that donny and to use one of your favourite words, I wont 'pontificate' anymore as to why there are so few Asians in top level footy now your 5 a side comp points to inhererant racism

 

Where have I said black players are mentally lacking you utter loon?

If you said that about Sterling I'd question why you consider him stupid. With Rooney I can point to the granny shagging, the smoking and lack of weight control, having boxing competitions with Phil Bardsley in his kitchen, short sighted comments about England fans booing the players, his recent comments on players' wages during coronavirus, his warning from the police for failing to social distance etc. etc. as evidence of how he doesn't seem the sharpest knife in the drawer, lacking professionalism and unsuited to management.

 

Of course all lives matter. Taking the knee is an admission that Black lives have mattered less to some people than should be the case. It is a gesture of support - a way of saying "Enough of the racism, let's do the right thing now".

 

You would expect with the number of players with a BAME heritage that there would be more people from this group in football management/journalism etc.
If this is right then the only way to redress the balance is to positively discriminate in their favour. The question shouldn't be who is best for the job - the question should be can this BAME guy do the job - if he can then appoint him.
Why would anyone object to this?

 

Could it be that BAME players are victims of conscious or unconscious bias throughout their career, and are self-aware enough to realise that a career in management is unlikely within the UK?

Although, there are plenty of countries with different ethnic mixes that could offer more opportunity if they wanted to progress within the game - they don't *have* to get a managerial job in England as soon as they stop playing. How many of the non-English BAME players who go back to their country of birth go on to coach or manage there? And how many settle in England at the end of their career? How many end their careers in England?

Lots of questions, although I suspect there is also lots of bias against the appointment of a BAME football manager in the UK.

 

But thats an assumption, fact is you dont know for certain but happily take up the default position of it must be a race thing.

 

Because if you applied that logic the other way then you’d be accused of racism. Imagine it, you have 5 black candidates and you’d give the job to candidate 3 every day of the week, but because white folk are underrepresented you give it to the single white candidate number 6. He isn't as experienced or qualified but he’s white, so you’ll happily discriminate against the black candidates on the basis of ethnicity because you want to have more white managers. It’s discrimination and it’s wrong, pick the best for the job without discrimination positive or otherwise.

 

Didn`t the FA have a program to bring in BAME coaches into the England set up other year, hoping that youngsters would take up coaching and increase their numbers in the game.

Kevin Betsy for one at U15 level.