The Labour Party

I’m a bit surprised by the idea in this thread that PR is anywhere near being adopted as the system for electing the Westminster Govt? I can’t see any change to the current FPTP being delivered in any way other than by a Referendum of the great British public. That means it’s dead in the water.

 

Tin foil hat *****.

Btw, Holyrood is elected on a PR basis, so dunno what you're on about with bringing the SNP into this, as Salmond's rise was gradual and they still didn't succeed in their referendum.

Yes they've taken the majority (all but one?) of seats in Scotland now and are recognised as a legit party, but that's off the back of a regional issue. It doesn't stop the Tories being in charge, in fact it hinders things.

Look at vote share for recent elections and how it translates to seats won, we need PR.

Hold your nose, vote for Starmer, and join your local CLP to try to affect party change.

Doing it the other way by building the Greens or Lib Dems would take a generation, and we don't have 30 years for people to live in poverty for the sake of left wing matters of principle.

 

if Labour want to change to a more honest leader. Put forward some policies I agree with a general sense of them moving forward popular left wing policies of course I would consider it.

at the time I’d vote for 4/5 parties before them. There is zero chance of me voting for a centre right party.

The SNP have won fantastic concessions for their people. Free university education and proscriptions. Daft to think they are anything other than the most popular and successful party in the last 20/30 years.

Labour are a centre right wet tory party at the moment as a left wing voter they offer me nothing. It’s not my jobs to make Labour electable that’s their job

The whole attempt at emotional blackmail is absolutely laughable. It’s just as ridiculous as me saying that you not and anyone else not voting Greens keeps the tories in. If Labour want progressive left votes the ball is in their court.

 

As I said yesterday, enjoy Tory rule then, (without complaint, as you're contributing to it, and don't call it emotional blackmail, that's just your brain recognising that I'm right), as the only other party who might get elected in the next 10-15 years is Labour.

And as I said today, if you want the Labour party to change, do something. Join your local branch and work from the inside.

Don't just whinge and vote for also-rans cos you don't consider the party to be ideologically pure - pragmatism is what is needed to affect actual positive change that's needed right now, if not years ago.

 

This is first class gaslighting. If there's one thing the Labour party have demonstrated over the past ten or so years it's that the PLP have got no interest whatsoever in the opinion of the members. So why bother joining?

As they say in programming, this is a feature not a bug. But if the aim is to get tories to vote for them then I honestly wish them all the best. Hopefully they can bring enough across to make up for the likes of me.

 

Trouble is, people did do that but are being kicked out the party now as Corbynytes.

 

I see your point. It's hard work to change the party and policy.

But Corbyn happened. It can be done.

The simple question is, would a Starmer govt be better or worse than five more years of Johnson, Sunak, Patel et al?

 

Mary Creaghs agent so I believe

 

Wonder if Corbyn will stand as an Independent in 2024?

 

Wel if that’s the level of debate anyone not voting Green is directly responsible if the tories win. Given that if everyone voted Labour switched to Green there is a decent chance of a Green led govt.

On this you are not right just indoctrinated into believing nothing can change. Both The SNP and UKIP have ably demonstrated you can change things within FPTP. SNP in terms of electoral success. UKIP in leading public policy and the. entry into the tory party once policy direction was set. Things only won’t change if we carry on parroting this errant nonsense.

Its not about perfect it’s about a broad level of agreement with policies. At the minute I would say I’m about 70% compatible with Greens, 50 percent with LibDems / Breakthrough Party. 40 percent with NIP with Labour about 20 percent just ahead of the tories on 10.

Of Course Labour can change course. Can implement some of the policies that Starmer got elected on but that’s on them not me. but the response to the energy poverty crisis is pathetic. Change nothing just have a one off windfall tax. Pathetic tokenism.

I’m a floating voter so they need to attract me. But at then end of that day I am not voting for one centre right party to replace another. If others want to that’s their choice and I don’t criticise that choice

 

Starmer needs to just give him the whip back get the media frenzy over with , Corbyns still a Labour member and hasn’t done anything to deserve his treatment .

 

Looks like we'll be suffering from Long Corbyn for a good while yet.

 

i suspect he won’t though if he did what probably win his seat as even his more critical opponents praise his work as a constituency mp.

 

What socialism in a socialist party how awful

 

Another scumbag in the Labour Party. That he & his treacherous wife have anything to do with them is another massive turn off when it comes to the idea of voting for them.

 

That's my point entirely. Labour aren't perfect. They're not even particularly good. BUT, they are the only party likely to win an election in 2023/24 who aren't the Tories.

That's a move towards the centre (and the left by default). A slight one, but it removes this current set of shits from office.

There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people using foodbanks and being denied benefits as a result of this government. They're also eyeing up the NHS and cutting local authority funding year on year, especially if you live somewhere that doesn't vote Tory.

The Tory core is so firm, and with Scotland now lost to the SNP, that it will take concerted effort from voters to remove them, look at history.

Labour are trying to look centrist. Jeremy Corbyn was frowned upon and he and his policies lost two consecutive elections, even against the incredibly weak Theresa May. He's why I joined the party and I'm arguing to continue to vote for them for the sake of immediacy and pragmatism!

 

What's really awful is winning 202 seats out of 650. You get no socialism that way.

 

you also don’t when you get 29% of the vote - Gordon Brown or irrevocably lose all Scottish seats - Ed Miliband. There’s nothing to suggest a David Cameron tribute band will storm into power.

 

You are missing the point. I don’t have a level of pragmatic agreement with Labour. I would say a 20% overlap at the most.

I voted for Starmer in the leadership. He lied to get my vote. If he had told the truth he would never have got elected. If he goes back to the policies I voted him in on then I would broadly identify with the direction of the party or if I stood again as leader but told the truth to members about setting up a David Cameron tribute band in place of the Labour Party if he won on that basis again I would have fewer quibbles.

I see nothing to be gained by voting for a party that thinks the answer to rising energy bills is a one off payment. That’s it. That’s the vision.

 

Not quite. In the Southern shires - typically Tory strongholds - Libdem candidates are likely to win a number of seats, in North Wales Plaid and in Scotland, SNP, so there is some regionality to the voting options. However, the likely winner of any GE would be blue or red (probably needing support from a yellow party to govern)