The Oakwell Academy

I'm not too worried about the results of the academy teams, because, it's the players that successfully come through to play professionally, that counts, not how many academy titles they win.

You Coachman, sound like the majority of weekend Junior team 'coaches', that believe it's the results that count, not the development of the lads playing.

Judgement on the latest crop of youngsters should be made at the end of their term.

Jeez! ... Some people get a little piece of paper from the F.A. and start to think they're Sir Alex Ferguson.

 

true, but

Isn't it a fact that youth teams containing players that do go on to be successful pros tend to do well? That Man Utd youth team containing Beckham, Butt et al certainly did alright. And at a lower level we've been doing OK for years and we've had a steady stream of players coming through the ranks. I certainly don't remember us doing as badly as we are this year. Maybe it's nothing to worry about, but I'd struggle to come up with a reason why the youth team losing the majority of their matches is a good thing.

 

If you read the full thread you will know my background and my concerns.
I have coached at University level where many of the players were of Academy standard.

I can't have made my concerns clear enough to you or you wouldn't have made the stupid comment you did. Have you read all I said ?

Where have I said that winning is paramount?

Open your eyes!

(banghead)

 

I'm stupid, 'am I, so my opinion doesn't count, just the answer I would have expected from someone puffed up with his/hers own importance.

Well! ... calm down dear, like I said, give someone a piece of paper and they think they are better than others. (blagger) ...

(zzz)

 

9...10

I write with a pen

????

 

RE: true, but

Who was it who said, losing was a good thing? .... not I.

It's not results that count, it's the end product .... as in players coming through, to successfully claim a first team place.

 

Of course it is

And like I said, I think there will be far more chance of that happening if the players are performing and winning at junior level.

 

Listen mate your comments show you have not taken in my earlier postings.
Otherwise you would have known that I have said that Academies are about development not winning.

But anyone with a basic knowledge of psychology will know the damage done to a player by being hammered every weekend.

 

RE: Of course it is

so ... it's thats what we need, to win at all costs while learning the game ....

Hmm! lets see, pick all the 6' 4" lads with well developed muscles and send em out to launch the ball into the opponents goal mouth as soon as possible, forget the finer points as long as they trample all over their opponents and win.

Yep! ... give me the job now, can't fail.

 

Yes that's exactly what I said

Thanks for the discussion, it was very enlightening.

 

Has it happens, I was involved with a junior side back in the early nineties and when they started in competitive leagues at UN10's ... they were being beaten every week 5 and 6-0 and more.

We never gave up on 'em and by the time they reached UN12's they had learnt to win by playing football, it's something those lads appreciated later and if Dave Hancock had only opened his eyes he would have given more than three of that team a chance.

Oh! and just for the record, I do not own any coaching qualifications, neither did anyone else involved with that junior side.

 

RE: Yes that's exactly what I said

Sorry Jay and Coachman ... I wasn't trying to make this personal. But having a go at the youngsters results this season, in my opinion, ain't productive in the long term scheme of things.

Truce??

 

truce

Like you, I don't think tht winning games at youth level is the be all and end all, far from it, but I am a little concerned that we haven't won any games. Having said that, I haven't seen the team play this year, so maybe the performances rather than the results do give grounds for optimism.

 

RE: Old Red

Iv'e just twigged who you could be.
I think Hancock was at the Longbow in the early 1990's. He was using the Coerver method, an excellent system I started to use myself. I dont think he was involved with BFC that far back. I think he came in like at lot of our original Academy staff via Barnsley Schools FA. I think it was Spackman who cleared a lot of them out because they lacked the relevant qualifications to do the job. But I could be wrong on that. In that era we were getting scouts from everywhere down at our club except BFC.

There were quite a few lads who went on trial at Scnuthorpe,Rotherham and Wednesday. BFC have missed out on too many local players. Wednesday have an associated club just 5 miles from Qakwell.

You can't run a side with out qualifications now like you could in the past.I wasn't qualified when I first started.
Coaches now have to have at least a level 1 certificate,Emergency aid, Child Protection and have a CRB check carried out.

For some reason board won't let me spell Scnuthorpe correctly.

 

RE: Old Red

I believe you're thinking of someone else, but, our club was based in Wombwell.

Your right about Dave Hancock though, he just about hand picked all the players for trials with Barnsley boys, at that time, and it always appeared to me, that, he had his favourite schools/teams, that he chose from and my opinion, was, I think like yours, that at lot of decent young lads were lost to other clubs, some of which you mention, I'm worried that this is still the case.

BTW, I think using this BBS as a place to air personal grievances against others, is wrong. If I've got it wrong, I apologise for thinking so.

 

RE: Old Red

Your Ryan was one of those over looked if I remember.
Probably because he wasn't a big lad.He can still put the ball in the net though.
A few lads who played for that club did go on to be Pros. Craig Marsh and Matty Hamshaw were two I can name.But they were after your time. Oh,Grant Black was with Mark Smith at the Academy. Best junior player Iv'e ever seen in a Mitchell's shirt.

You must be in a better position than I am to compare todays Academy set up with what it was when we had Mark, Colin, Bob Widdowson and Barry Wagstaff involved.You yourself having worked at the club.

Do you think things are healthy with the Academy or do you think we should become a Centre of Excellence? I don't think it really matters as long as we have the best possible coaches with a successful track record in there. It would be nice if we could get Tony Carr from West Ham.

 

hancock used to post on the old bbs

might still post on here?</p>

 

The Academy

It sounds like we all are in agreement that the academy is in a bit of a state at present for some reason or other. As I have posted on here before the people at the academy are working extremely hard to succeed however working hard does not ensure success. I know Dave Hancock, and he is a nice fella but to be in charge of a major development programme that has cost the club millions over the years is ludicrous. The reason why the players that we have at the academy are not fulfilling their potential - as that is what it can only be called at such an early age - is due to not having the correct direction.
As coaches you will be aware of the Charles Hughes method of coaching from the early 90's. This was based on classroom basics and was basically coached as if read from a book the morning before the session. I find it hard to believe that any coach that has never played the game to any standard would be able to coach in any other way. And as proved by Englands results in the early 90's this does not work. Dave Hancock learnt his trade as a coach by the very same method.

 

RE: The Academy

I think Dave did originally do the old Preliminary Certificate back in Charlie's days but I wouldn't knock him for that. Nowhere on any course I have taken has the long ball been advocated. I did my Prelim in 1995. Since then he will have converted to the new generation of courses. We all had to do that.

The FA Academy regulations state that from 1st August 2004 all coaches registered and authorised to coach in Football Academies must hold the relevant FA Youth Coaches Award. There are three age groups for these 7-11, 12-16 and 17-21. To be allowed to take the 17-21 Youth Award you must have the "A" Licence. They must also take a refresher course every 3 years. Even grassroots coaches have to do refresher courses or related courses from the FA portfolio.

The minimum Full-Time staff Requirement of an Academy is:

One Director of Academy
One Assistant Director of Academy (8-16 years)
One Assistant Director of Academy (16-21 years)
One Academy doctor-not 1st team doctor unless full-time
Two Full-time Physiotherapists
One Education/Welfare Advisor ( either full or part-time )

Maximum ratio of players to coaches 20:2
All Academy Goalkeepers to have access to speciallist goalkeeping sessions for a minimum of 50% of technical practice.

I dont know how we meet those requirements.
(RIP)

 

RE: The Academy

The coaching licensing now is extremely difficult to uphold and takes a large amount of work to keep within the parameters i.e paperwork but that doesn't make a good coach. Too much emphasis within the new rules is based on the coursework above the practicality and that is wrong.

I do entirely agree with your argument about the standard of the academy at present and know from postings that you are looking at the bigger picture of our developing players and that is what we all want. My gripe is the same....the wrong people are looking after the future of our club which are the youngsters. I was lucky enough to play for Barnsley U18's with the likes of Scott Jones, Adie Moses, Chris Jackson, David Brooke (Could have been a star!!) and Luke Beckett and the standard of direction was far superior.