Where did I say they earned less? Please don't accuse me of being dishonest. The fact is that there is already a system in place that taxes any income over £50k at double the rate of the previous £38k approx, and then beyond at a higher income. I'm all for taxing the super wealthy a lot more, but again, £50k is not an enormous income in my opinion, and experience of discussing money and budgets for the last 20 years in my career.
This is a conversation which is seemingly primarily focused on whether £50k is a good/big/enormous income or not. You're then talking about mansions and Lamborghinis. I can assure you that the income required to be able to afford such things is a hell of a lot more than £50k a year and an entirely different conversation.
Poor generalisation. It's been explained several times on this thread, how 50k can differ significantly. If someone is earning 50k with a family of 4 and is the sole earner, I can absolutely guarantee you they are not rich, and in some parts of the country will barely cover essential costs.
You said there was no incentive to earn more. There is. Your earn more and that bit more you earn is taxed a bit more, but you still earn more so there is an incentive. What you claimed is dishonest. I posted a link to jobs in Barnsley earlier in this thread. There are 293 jobs and all but a handful receive less than 50K. Even a senior occupational therapist who needs a degree, a masters, and years on the job. 50K is an astonishing amount of money to most people in this country.
If you're going to get picky, I DIDN'T say that. I said 'Where's the incentive to earn more?' IF tax/NI on £50k was increased still further. I did NOT say there was NO incentive. Similar example to this: Someone offers me £20 an hour to do 50 hours of work on something. Then says after those 50 hours, I'll pay you £8/hour. I'd stop at 50 hours unless I was desperate. Yes there's still some 'incentive', but it's nowhere near what the first 50 hours were so I'll probably not bother. That's just my opinion. But that is effectively what happens on HR tax. (It's not £10/hour as there's a tax free allowance at the start!). OR I'll pay you £20/hour to do this job, or you can do one with longer hours, more responsibility, more pressure and I'll pay you £24/hour. Again, many would stick at the £20/hour. If the £24/hour job was £30/hour without tax/NI increases, the incentive would probably tip the scales.
Jay, I get from the point of view of anyone on a salary significantly below £50k, of which I have spoken to and helped many in different ways, in different jobs, that £50k might seem like a huge salary. It's all relative. £100k will seem enormous to someone on £50k and a pittance to someone on £200k. There's not really a right and wrong here, it's simply a few people sharing alternative opinions. I'm trying to give a view as someone that (sorry for keep repeating) sees budgets and incomes for people all over the UK and has for many years, and therefore from an honest and genuine point of view - with no personal agenda (i.e. being on a low or high salary). I'm not sure which point specifically you mean. But there is already a doubling of income tax at £50k - why should there also be another tax at that figure as well, in a national insurance hike? There was until a few weeks ago, a further reduction in income beyond £50k, in child benefit being tapered/stopped at £60k, though that has been temporarily increased. So for many yes, the incentive to progress in a career or work more hours if self-employed, as more and more are these days, will only be diminished further by more deductions from income at such a level of earnings.
That's not necessarily true. Some people believe that if fortune has favoured you, the right thing to do is to contribute more to help those that it hasn't.
And others have pointed out that it isn’t really a fortune ( when considering personal circumstances), and they already do contribute more. Neither of you are going to agree because your opinions are subjective, so what’s the point in bickering? Leave @Journo Tyke to count his millions.
I earn more than that but less than I used to but happily pay tax and would happily pay more. We are a society. We need to remember that. We need to break the chains of 40 years of ‘I’m alright’ society and go back to one where we look after all people and are happy to do so.
Interesting that people earning 70k represent only 4% of UK employees. I’d probably start any additional taxation there.
Ha, I wish! I'm being objective as someone that works in finance, budgets etc, not subjective. It's my belief that people on middle incomes like that pay enough tax and NI as it is, and money should be found from the really rich, and efficiencies and better decision making by those that spend all the money we're taxed now.
I wasn’t referring to your overall posts. I was merely suggesting that your opinion on £50k not being deserving of the additional tax is subjective because that’s what you earn and your circumstances suggest it isn’t as much as people think. I’ll assume Jay’s opinion is different because he earns less.
Well I've slept on it and I still can't get my head round how most don't seem to think that 50k is a good wage. Teachers, care workers, binmen, nurses, supermarket workers, delivery drivers, IT Problem solvers, bus drivers, hospitality sector workers, admin workers and a host of other vital roles all pay less than 50k. In some cases way less. And we're still waiting for the 50k delivery driver link so we can all apply. I'm with Jay on this one - this thread has been very sobering reading.
But if your earning more money its hardly fortune. Alot of the time its hard work or years of studying to get the relevant qualifications. Although 50k is taxing the working class more I know tradesmen working for firms on that and more.
Royston but I put down a deposit of around 40% of the value. It was £220K when I bought it. I'd been in my previous home around 10 years and had put %15 down on that and always over paid. So a house I bought for £70k I sold for £135K and I owed less than £30k on it at time of sale. A lot of luck involved in the timings not really skill. Bought the previous one just after the recession back end of 2009 I think. Then sold it during the boom in prices in Covid. The house I bought was probably slightly undervalued as it was a divorce sell and they wanted a quick sale. It was only on the market a few days and I immediately offered the asking price.
