Weak Down The Wings

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by dreamboy3000, Oct 4, 2021.

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  1. troff

    troff Well-Known Member

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    13000 people see that regularly and only one apparently doesn’t
     
    troff, Oct 4, 2021
    #21
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  2. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Whenever I play pretend football manager with our current squad and the challenges we're facing everything always goes back to some form of 3-5-2 set up in different ways. But maybe there's another way.

    Even now trying to type up my proposed team I'm chopping and changing the shape of it in the final third. It's obvious we need a focal point for the attack, and I'm sure Oulare was earmarked to do this role with Devante doing a decent job on Saturday and Vic being suited to it. I've not been convinced we can play a back four but if we set the full backs up to be more like Luke Shaw and Alonso, and less like Lawton at Burnley, maybe it would work. Four, four, bloody two is definitely not the way to go, but something akin to Manchester United might suit our players and give us structure and width now we're not playing 'the hoof'. I loved 'the hoof' by the way.


    upload_2021-10-4_16-27-43.png

    Change Oulare for Woodrow or for Cole. Change Woodrow for Frieser or Oduor. Pretty interchangeable in terms of the personell. If Benson wants to come and get the ball between our CBs, which appears to be what he does, and Gomes is a DM, then you can't play them together in a midfield two otherwise you've got zero attacking threat (even less than we have now!). So let Gomes sit, let Benson drop in and dictate, and let the wing backs push on ahead of Iseka and Woodrow (in the above) knowing that we'd have a front six and a back four.

    Styles is giving license to get on the ball and do what he was trying to do on Saturday, just with options all around him. Iseka and Woodrow don't need to be so narrow because he's in and around Oulare as well.

    Think of Benson/Gomes as Joginho/Kante or Fred/McTominay. Styles as Fernandes. Oulare as Ronaldo. Iseka and Woodrow as Greenwood and Rashford.

    Easy. Top six by May.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Oct 4, 2021
    #22
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  3. Ste

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    Great vision. Can't argue with that. It's the best 11 in positions they'd be comfortable playing.
     
    Stephen Dawson, Oct 4, 2021
    #23
  4. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    That was the sort of formation that I was expecting to see when Schopp was appointed and we heard reports of how he liked to play. 4-3-3, or a variation of 4-3-3. Was a bit disappointed that he stuck with 3-4-3 because it looked like he was sticking with that because he felt he had to, and it doesn’t really suit the playing style that he wanted.

    I’m still hopeful that Vita can provide a decent option on the left, and J Williams would then give Brittain some serious competition for right back, because his pace would be valuable in Schopp’s style of play.
     
    leythtyke, Oct 4, 2021
    #24
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  5. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    No idea how Vita is doing. Are they letting fans in for U23 games at the moment?

    Heard he's rapid, good going forward, not so much of a defender.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Oct 4, 2021
    #25
  6. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    Sounds quite standard for a full back these days to be fair.

    I'd also say Kitching could do a job as a left back in a back 4.
     
    leythtyke, Oct 4, 2021
    #26
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  7. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    That's the issue though isn't it. Too many selections that 'could do a job'. Hardly progress considering everything.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Oct 4, 2021
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  8. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    You have just made the clearest case for sacking the manager I've read on here.

    We clearly needed to change to 3 in midfield games ago, but we persist with a formation that isn't working.

    Thanks for clearing that up.
     
    John Peachy, Oct 4, 2021
    #28
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  9. Old Goat

    Old Goat Well-Known Member

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    Given the current squad, I'm not convinced by any system that has 3 forwards on the pitch. To me, it means we're a man light somewhere else, probably in the middle, and likely to be over run.

    I know Val worked wonders with it last season, but that was because his vertical style bypassed midfield more often than not. We're not that team anymore, and need to control the middle third more effectively in order to make things happen further up the pitch. Moving to 352 is a no-brainer.
     
    Old Goat, Oct 4, 2021
    #29
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  10. Sha

    Shanghai Tyke Active Member

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    3-4-3 is a wretched formation and we're totally ill-suited to it in terms of style and personnel.
    In a 3-4-3 the most important positions are the wingbacks.
    3-4-3 relies on incredible stamina and energy to press. It counters a weak midfield by flooding the forward line in attack once we win the ball back quickly through a press. And turns a back 3 into a back 5 in defense. We essentially only have two CM in a 3-4-3 so if we want to pass the ball they need to be incredible on the ball with vision, touch and accuracy. We don't have that. Without a press 3-4-3 is useless as our 2 CM are overun as they get no defense from the pressing forwards who are in effect the first line of defense.
    Based on our personnel I would switch to 5-3-2. If we are weak up front, why have three? Dominate numbers in the middle and regain possession. If stamina is now an issue then pressing and counter attack is a problem. We need to control the ball with a 5 in midfield. That means less running around. It reduces the need for the fullbacks to bomb forward or rush back. But it does make us quite narrow.
    A 3 in midfield such Gomes, Benson and Styles. Or Gomes, Benson and Palmer. a front two of Woodrow and Iseka with Cole off the bench.
    a back 3 of Sibbick, Helik and Kitching.
     
    Shanghai Tyke, Oct 5, 2021
    #30
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  11. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Often in games we've been setting up as 5-4-1 out of possession. That's why we've been comfortable in general play, but completely lacking whenever we throw numbers forward and get hit on the break.

    Interestingly though, our best 20 minutes so far this season at home was probably the second half against Forest (or the first 20 against Millwall). Against Forest we pressed, set up as a bank of five aggressively up the pitch, and the wing backs even pushed up to challenge for Samba's balls out wide. It was working, because Forest insisted on over playing out from the back, but ultimately failed because they were so rapid on the counter attack we were over committed if we didn't win the ball. This wouldn't have been an issue if we played the game like it was basketball - last season being the example.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Oct 5, 2021
    #31
  12. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    Apparently not letting fans in at the moment.
     
    Redhelen, Oct 5, 2021
    #32
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