We're on a 4 game unbeaten run

sorry,i'd forgot about middlesborough being in the last 4,i'd got them mixed up with reading.still dunt alter the fact that we've only won 6 since feb

 

No I agree it doesn't look good written down...by the same token on the form of the last 6 games we are 16th overall combined, 14th on home results,but bottom on away results...so on the last 6 there are 8 teams worse than us,get some away form sorted and things could start to look a bit less bleak.

 

Re: Save your condescension for someone else

jOB cannot and does not regularly perform well in a creative or attacking sense at this level. 6 goals in 4 years 9 assists in four years tells you the facts of this occasionally he will have a good game. A league lower or back up in Scotland these occasional games would be more regular. With Jim what you see is what you get. Good honest trier never let's you down. Will he create anything with any sort of regularity no. Is his performance against Donny more representative than against Ipswich yes. I once saw Ian Chandler have a reight game against Hull he still wasn't good enough. Even the mighty Chris Hedworth did alright a couple of times. Unfortunately neither lthey nor Jim were good enough to consistently perform at championship level. An average player doesn't suddenly become good enough. We cannot survive with 3 honest tries in midfield.

 

Agree with pretty much everything here other than the Dagnall love in.

 

Still waiting for someone to explain how winning 1 of our first 7 games than 1 in the next 8 is progress or how winning 2 in 15 or 6 in 30 demonstrates any form of continuous improvement. There are sone slivers of hope and a slight improvement on the absolutely dire spectacle of playing 3 defensive midfielders and still getting hammered earlier in the season. This has to be balanced against the fact that we have had a run of easier games. Ii just want a real refocus and some sort of sign that we have a manager that wants to promote from within and nurture or younger players rather than alienated them and destroying their confidence.

 

I think Jay has explained it perfectly to be fair. We were shipping goals and losing games. We've stopped shipping goals and are drawing games. That is improvement. I can't see how it can't be improvement. Whether it is sufficient or masking underlying issues are all open to debate but when you are getting beaten regularly and easily the first task is to make yourself difficult to beat and build from that platform.

 

Straight question have the last few games been as difficult as the ones where we were getting hammered in? Or are Donny/Wednesday say slightly less good than Watford and Wigan?

 

You could say that a fairer assessment could be made at Christmas when we will be approx 23 games on the board, as by that stage we will have played the rest of the division. Could be too late mind you. But I've a feeling that the fact that we have stopped shipping goals and started drawing games is largely down to the fact that we are in a run of games against more average sides, and is nothing really to do with any improvement in our performances.

 

We haven't only played Wednesday and Donny though have we? Are Wednesday and Donny as good as Watford and Wigan? No. Are Reading and Ipswich as good as Watford and Wigan? Well, Reading are a point above Watford, Wigan are two in front of Ipswich, all four teams are placed 6th to 12th within 4 points of one another, so I'd say they're about the same. Wouldn't you?

So here's a question for you, were the results and performances against Reading and Ipswich an improvement on those against Watford and Wigan?

You don't have to answer that, we all already know, which is kind of the whole point.

 

Without taking the slightly complicating factor of them being derby games out of it then no, of course they haven't. But neither of those teams beat us. And we had enough chances to beat both of them, and inbetween we have outperformed two better teams. If Flicker had set us out to be more adventurous and open we may have well have lost all those games and he more than likely would have been sacked. I'm not saying there isn't plenty of valid criticism to be made but hammerings have become draws and draws we should have won and I can't see how that can't be deemed as progress.

 

Agree with the OP

Didn't make the effort to read the rest of the thread properly.

Big overreaction to the Doncaster game imo. That's not like the BBS though is it?

 

It probably is progress, but if it is progress, then it is progress that is leaving me cold at the moment. Not just because the season promised so much and has turned into a disaster, but because what progress there is is not going to be enough to save us, in my opinion.

 

I think part of the problem is everyone forgot that many of the limitations that Hill was working under still exist.

Don't get me wrong I've been critical for a long time over the style of football. We're a good team when we get it down and play but it is too fleeting, and I can't see us being genuinely creative unless we sacrifice a striker or possibly a defender to get 5 in midfield. But I can understand Flicker's quandary in having Pedersen at his disposal.

But if your not losing your only ever one kick away from 3 points.

 

No idea about the above but the results compared to the teams around us have got better when you compare the first 6 to the last 6

http://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables...Jul-30/todate:2013-Sep-16/type:home-and-away/
http://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables...Sep-28/todate:2013-Nov-16/type:home-and-away/

 

So you don't know if Watford and Wigan are better teams than Wednesday and Donny did you go?

First 7 games 1 win And 1 draw.
Second 8 games 1 win and 4 draws

Are we measuring progress as obtaining 3 extra draws in 1 extra game?

 

what I was pointing out was the improvement in form compared to those around us

 

I know what you're saying and agree in part. There has been a slight improvement in performance though the overall quality of the football Reading notwithstanding remains poor. I'm not in the Flicker out camp but neither can we sit here going everything is now on track. It's not surprising that the fans of a team in the bottom 3 all season are a bit twitchy and anyone who is surprised at that surprises me. There seems little clarity's of thought in pretending everything is hunky dory just as there is little point in saying get shut.

Progress can't be measured in terms of a couple of extra draws against weaker opposition or not losing by quite as many. It needs to be looked as as a whole. Are we playing attractive football to attract more fans and increase revenue. Are we promoting from within rather than over reliance on the loans system. Are we employing flexible tactics tailored to our own strengths and the oppositions weaknesses. Do we have a stronger squad. Are the motivational skills of the manager towards all his players not just the ones he favours good.

I'd say at the minute not much of this is happening.alongside some average results.

 

The problem with the 4 game unbeaten run we are currently on involves the last 3 being draws, so that 4 match unbeaten run could very well turn into a 4 game winless run after the next game.

 

Yes but these 2 games were amongst a run of 6 that a lot of posters, and i imagine you, Jay, could have been 1 of them hat were crowing that after the QPR game we would be on a run of "winnable" games.

 

If you're going to criticise me, stick to what I've actually written, not what you imagine I might have written.