Why are we relaxing rules?

They have a different method of policing in Spain and Italy (and France and greece). We also are clearly the most important and precious of all European people's too. We have also had poor leadership.

 

Quite a few people have taken on the new guidance and started having garden parties already round here, saw a few on my way to the shops last night.

 

12th April is incorrect.

 

Attitudes like some in this thread still somehow shock me even in this post truth world. ‘No scientific evidence’ that a highly virulent virus will spread through the population if we don’t take measures to stop it.
Playing on the idea that those wanting this relaxed at the proper time are trying to take away freedoms instead of wanting this out of the population so we can be properly free. I often wonder if people realise they are getting these lines from the likes of Dr Karol who is incessantly posted on here and has interests in private healthcare and wants to see the NHS ended as I posted in another thread.
I think what I find most disgusting, is that when thousands more die needlessly (again, this is not the accepted impact of the virus around the world, even in countries bordering China) there won’t be any outrage from the people that are encouraging this to be lifted. Yet again it will be ‘hindsight is 20:20’ and ‘there’s nothing else that could have happened’. Probably from the same people that have described the continued spread of a deadly virus in this thread as mythical.

 

my missis is a nurse absolutely not her experience. Lockdown calmed down the stretch of resources. Pre to Covid they were working at 98% capacity so there was little ‘give’ in the system. That’s with regard to staff to patient safe systems of working. Press ganging 3rd year student nurses to count in the numbers rather than being supernumerary helped this as well as lockdown. Things are now under control. On her ward (non. Covid) there are still 2 cases of CV19 and 3 staff off with it with 1 diagnosed this week. No indication that anyone in charge has any concerns about the numbers.

 

There’s been over 60k excess deaths and counting. Whether they are all from Covid or even if loads have been mislabelled as Covid, it’s crystal clear that the government’s incompetence has caused tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths. I’m not going to start trusting that they are making the right decisions now when they are constantly contradicting themselves and twisting statistics on a pretty much daily basis.

 

Attached?
At least you admit that Spain released lockdown restrictions well before us and therefore that comparing deaths between us and Spain today is misleading.
I see you also quoted reported UK deaths following the bank holiday spike. It will fall today.

Rolling seven day averages on the dates that the UK and Spain released the same lockdown restrictions would be a fair comparison.

 

Sorry but anyone suggesting the government are allowing people to die on purpose to deflect from other issues or just don’t care, really need to have a rethink.

I don’t know why they choose the options they do so I can’t offer an alternative, but I refuse to believe that
a) with his many faults as a politician Boris as a person is an individual who believes in genocide.
b) for the above to be believable you are also suggesting the majority of the Conservative party also follow the belief in genocide. Surely some of them would break ranks if this was the case.
c) With us living in a free democracy if it was a deliberate policy there are enough people with access to info it would come out, other MP’s, Doctors, Scientists etc.

in short yes, criticise for handling, criticise for policy but let’s at least keep it realistic.

 

You can say it whichever way you like but we have more Covid deaths than any other country, excepting USA. We have messed up big time.

 

I assume you’re quoting me there.

Its clear that the natural R for this virus is 3, and if unchecked there will be a massive spike.

But please tell me who on this thread is advocating that all restrictions are released? No sane person is.

All I’m saying is that now feels like the right time to start gradually releasing restrictions. We’re talking about a minority of kids going back to school, meeting up with a few family members in gardens, opening more shops, all whilst continuing to adhere to a social distancing policy.

What I take issue with is people stating, as an absolute fact, that because of this gradual release we’re heading for second wave. They produce 0 scientific evidence that’s backs with claim up.

Compare that to all the scientists who’s day job it is to determine whether this combination of release of restrictions is going to lead to a second wave, and who have determined that it will not.

Sorry if that attitude shocks you in this ‘post truth world’, where somehow believing the experts rather than Barry on Twitter is the wrong thing to do.

 

Said all along my biggest criticism of the Government handling Is the lack of decisiveness.
I have also said to others with a huge caveat that I believe we are probably the only Country in the world who would not accept a you will do message.

 

The excess data shows how awful the situation is. Whether those are Covid deaths or deaths indirectly to Covid I don't know. I assume it's a mixture of the two. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a few more mini spikes in excess deaths in the next 18-24 months.
The NHS essentially shut down. Thousands of Cancer patients have gone undiagnosed. Some life extending treatments were delayed.
The suffering caused by the NHS shut down has been awful. My son, Mum and Dad have all had services taken away that have reduced quality of life. I don't know if that was necessary or not, I'd like to think it was. I just think if that's me how many more are suffering even worse.

 

Yup that’s all that matters. Whether you support the lockdown or not. Whether you are happy to be traced by a Govts app or not. Whether you are in favour of brexit or not. Whether you care about Cummings or not in this there is no hiding place. The fundamental role of any govt is to protect its citizens. Our Govts response has been shoddy and lacked any real concern for most of us. We have done appallingly.

 

Genuine question about the Cancer point, is that true or is it what is being perpetuated by others?
i ask cos a family I know in Barnsley, the lady of the house has been diagnosed and started treatment during the lockdown period.
So just wondering if it’s more of a regional thing as opposed to a National policy

 

Whole swathes of this country have flouted the "lock-down" recommendations from the start. The one's in certain other European countries which were much more stringent than ours have been successful. There are many reasons for this and a style of policing that we would call fascistic is a big one. However we complained when the handful of police on duty very occasionally stopped people to politely ask where they were going. We also have paltry fines and no other penalties in place (Greece 300€ fine and if in car taken off you for 60 days). We had people arguing that B&Q was right to open because Bob needed to paint his fence. We then saw hordes of people queuing outside where the breeze was happily taking their droplets here there and everywhere. Oh how the Europeans laughed, "what? you crazy English. A fence for a life!" Then we have people refusing to get involved in track and trace. This worked well in certain Asian countries during the Sars outbreak and has contributed during this. This will never work here though. The fact that this is seen as a requirement proves that we have done such a terrible job up to now. And now we are seeing the "I'm not having a vaccine(ers)". So if a vaccine ever becomes available lots of people will refuse to take it.
We have had an abomination of a government overseeing this but let's not kid ourselves, a very significant sector of our population have been an abomination too.

 

Do people care, NO, are people ignorant to the threat, YES. Accept it an live wi it, or get depressed worrying, as long as you and yours adhere to rules, Stay safe.

 

I've read a few articles in different places stating it to be the case. It's not that all treatments have stopped. I think it's the case that because people aren't going to GPs or even making telephone appointments its leading to less people being diagnosed. People may be ignoring what they say as minor symptoms, they probably don't even consider cancer.
A drop off in screenings and referrals will inevitably lead to reduction in diagnosed cases

 

According to the CDC, R0 for COVID-19 is 5.7, with a 95% confidence interval of 3.8 to 8.9. The difference between 3 and 3.8 is a jump from 66% to 73% for herd immunity through vaccination/infection. At 5.7, its 83% and 8.9 its over 90%

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0282_article

 

One of my friends had his op for prostate cancer on the day lockdown started. IIRC Sprotbrorough Red had his operation since lockdown started too.