Why can the US and UN team up to.......

[/QUOTE]There is no doubt that hundreds of children have been killed during the conflicts - in fact though its hard to quantify accurately its almost certain that over 1000 children have been killed in the last 15 years but I dont think hundreds of Children have been killed in the last few weeks. In the last few weeks was the quote - and I dont think that is accurate [/QUOTE]


Sadly, you *thinking something* doesn't make it true.

As Ive said before, Hamas dropped this from its constitution some time ago.

The chances of Israel ceasing to exist are none. It's like claiming the Isle of Man can destroy the UK.

So what is the picture of Gaza then? If those bombed buildings and power stations, the thousand plus dead people and "defenceless civilians is "a bit simplistic" then what are we actually watching? Please explain...


15 dead, 90 wounded as Israeli tank shells slam a crowded U.N. school in Gaza

 

Excellent article to show how the Israelis view and treat Palestinians

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n15/mouin-rabbani/israel-mows-the-lawn

 

The analogy as it stands (and as you agreed was the case at the moment) is therefore correct. "Keeping Palestine weak" seems to involve slaughtering Palestinians without you believingthey have a right to defend themselves. Again, i refer you to my analogy re: me steling your house and the school bully.

You can't give something (ie the Gaza strip) to someone that is already in their possession!

I dont have the article to hand where I read Hamas had said what i claimed, ill try and find it but stand corrected if untrue. However, as I stated before it's not surprising they take this view. You can't steal someones property and then expect the owner to share it - something Israel doesn't even want to do. Hamas have accepted the UN 1967's borders as a basis for a Palestinian state. Something Israel repeatedly refuses to do.

Palestinians (Syrians, Egyptians, Jordanians, Iraqism Jews) are all Semites. Hamas cannot be anti-Semetic. They are anti-Israel. They are a resistance group, the term jihad is neither here nor there.

Nor this.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/watch-far-right-israelis-celebrate-gaza-kids-deaths/

 

Question - do you support the people of Ukraine in defending their land from becoming part of Russia?

 

How anybody can tell which is the worst offender in this is beyond me, Israel lets rip at Hamas but Hamas stick armaments in heavily populated areas and would in all likelihood have cased the same devastation to Israel if the Israeli defences hadn't the ability to pick off most of the incoming stuff.

 

They clearly wouldn't cause the same damage because militarily they are pretty shitty rockets. Israel have military installations near civilian populations too. The only difference is Hamas cant blow them up to make the same point.

 

So you think Ukrainians have the right to resist Russian fomented rebels seizing part of Eastern Ukraine - but you don't think Palestinians have the right to stop Israel taking land from them? You said further up:

Well, erm yes. Although it's a tad more than "unfortunate".

 

This.

 

Ill just re-post this as it's important to see what's happening:



Look at the scale too, It's important. There's now another 110,000 people without homes, all going to be crammed into refugee camps inside Gaza. Exactly when will people defending Israel say "Enough is enough?"

 

Artistic license, mate. Sorry. But probably. I mean, they live in such small houses!

 

The 2 situations are entirely different, that is classic deflection (and I basically support your viewpoint)

 

<img src="http://scontent-b.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpa1/t51.2885-15/926831_870317746330955_680076698_a.jpg">

 

The situations are very different in some ways, but the main thesis still holds - they are fighting over land and its ownership.

 

That is a very inaccurate conclusion to draw but that is because that you don't know the first thing about me. As I said I can see both sides of the argument and I can understand the points raised by both sides - I won't take any side in this conflict because I believe that it is far too complex to just draw such a simplistic and one sided conclusion in the way that you have.

They may not be responsible for deaths on the same scale as Israel but that does not mean they are not killing because they are and to claim to the contrary is ridiculous. If they had the opportunity they would kill on the same scale as Israel.

 

So in summary if we don't blame Israel entirely we defending them? Maybe you should open your mind and your eyes and read the posts again because I can't see one post defending Israel or blaming the Palestinians / Hamas either.

 

Im drawing a conclusion from the fact you think a heavily armed and powerful state (backed by other heavily armed and powerful states) can kill with impunity and your response is 'well it's a bit complicated so im not taking sides'.

1000 people dead on one side and several thousand injured. 120,000 displaced, thousands of homes and building razed to the ground. The last power station in Gaza bombed by the Israeli airforce. People unable to leave their homes, a military force occupying their land. How many have to die? Is there an upper limit before you decide that enugh is enough? The solution is simple. Israel must stop its occupation of Gaza as it has been asked to do. It must withdrawn to its 1967 UN boundaries as it has been asked to do by the UN and as Hamas have accepted.

I've not claimed they aren't trying to kill anyone.

If my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle.

 

Well, when you say "displaced"......that's like saying The US was created by 'displacing' the North American Indians.

No, im not over simplifying. The truth is fairly simple. Palestinians had their land taken from them. They have the right to defend that land. Israel is the aggressor.


Im certainly not saying Israel have to give all that land back (because fundamentally even though they should, it wont happen). But the arguments always start "Well its the Palestinians fault", "They launch rockets" etc.. But if it is their land and they've had it rmeoved from them, how can they fundamentally to blame? (see my analogies earlier).

Israel should go back to the 1967 boundaries as agreed upon by all parties at the UN. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

Israel has continued to expand and is still taking Palestinian land (interesting to look at how it has taken all the West Banks water resources for example). So you really should be asking for that to stop, not complaining about Hamas rocket attacks.

I dont view Hamas as right. But the Palestinian people have been forced into a position by Israel whereby they are (along with Fatah) the only support they have. And for all their faults (which there are many) they do look after their people. They are the cry of a desperate people.

You dont have to like Hamas to want Israel to stop its sub-human treatment of the Palestinian people.