William Hague

or alternatively

just sign on and collect benefits cos it's more than you'd getbeing a monkey. What's the unemployment rate? How many people have we doing low paid jobs coming in from other countries? </p>

Why does this happen? Because the bosses can coin the profits by hiring cheap, they don't care about unemployment cos their accountants make sure they aren't the ones funding the benefits. That's left to the poor saps in the middle who are paying taxes through the nose.</p>

 

So who is to blame there?

If there was no minimum wage would employers pay more through their generosity?

Have you ever read Ragged Trousered Philanthropists? It is still true today.

 

Yes. Freeze in return for the chance to "re-train".

Bizzare and barbaric. IMHO.

 

Amen... nt

 

well considering in my own examples, i got paid better prior to min wage for the same jobs.

 

That's one reason I'm a tory.

At least the tories are honest about their allegiencies. Tories change things to make things better for themselves, and as a consequence we can all take advantage of those changes.

How anyone can believe that Mandelson is in it for anyone but himself is beyond me.



IF the labour party were all like Dennis Skinner I'd vote for them every day.

He's the only decent politician they've had since 1980

But they're not. Like all those on Barnsley council they only wear a red jacket to get elected!

 

So who is to blame? nt

 

So you would support a socialist like Dennis?

Good Oh! I can count on your support!

The Tories (or anyone for that matter!) changing things to make in better for themselves does, at best, only improve things for a small percentage of people.

 

If Freeze was the reality.

But it isn't is it.

It's don't have a foreign holiday.

it's give up smoking

Have a few less beers.


The extremes are always emotive.

The reality is somewhat different.

 

Simon Davey of course

 

Indeed - as you say - not really

Education is free. Why have I just stopped paying off my student loans then - can I have that money back? If I want to retrain to become a doctor or a dentist for six years - who is going to pay my rent? Are there no fees involved in that? How about an MBA - £20,000 for a decent one. Ok so basic literacy and numeracy to GCSE and A level standard is on offer to all - but again if you've got a single parent and five siblings you might have to get out and take a basic job at 16. As you say - these things are not based upon a pure environment - that's why the market isn't fair.

To suggest that policies and organisations to protect the working classes are outdated and now unnecessary - what a niaive thought! People had to fight for the kind of social reform that took kids out of mines and mills, and to create an NHS - you watch those rights and entitlements being erroded when the safe guards are removed. (The Tory party have already stuck a toe in the water of getting rid of the NHS by speaking publically on the issue in the USA - they have had to back away from that in a hurry too. Private sector health care is good if you have the money to afford it and so long as you don't fall foul of a recurring illness. You get a cancer treatment and most private providers will subsequently refuse to cover you for that subsequently OR will hike your premium outrageously.)

Everyone does not have the same opportunities for education. Even the government has acknowledged as much. That's why we are given league tables for schools. If you live in an area where the school is rubbish, with massive class sizes, drug problems and teachers who have had enough, you will not get the same opportunity as someone who is sent to a well heeled public school which will more or less fast track you into whatever preferred career you take a shine to. It's all very well saying to kids that they need to pay more attention - but in a class with thirty plus kids you will not get the kind of focus and attention that a kid in a class of fifteen will.

As for captains of industry being born out of single parent hardship - sure there are some exceptional personal stories out there - but in the larger context of society they are the needle in the hay stack - they are genuinely rare. It is complete lunacy to blame the strenghts and weaknesses of the individual completely. Sure people as individuals have a deal of control - but it is not 'simply a choice' that people make.

As for your mates who are brickies and plumbers - there's plenty struggling for work right now - the cut throat market will make sure they get paid the cheapest possible wage too.

 

No - I would support a govermnet made up of many Dennis's

What the **** is the a group of Denniss called?

Deni?


But seeing as Labour have only ever created one I doubt utopia would be delivered

 

I agree

We should slash benefits

 

There's only one reason you're a tory...

...and that's you being in it for yourself. Just like every other tory. That's fine - but just try to be fair and open about your allegiances, that's all.

 

and bring back workhouses?

and TB, Ricketts and Diptheria too? Ah, the good old days!

 

Right... nt

 

Denis

Oh Denis doo-be-do, I'm in love with you.
Denis doo-be-do, I'm in love with you.
Denis doo-be-do, I'm in love with you.
Denis Denis, oh with your eyes so blue...
Denis Denis, I've got a crush on you.
Denis Denis, I'm so in love with you.
Oh when we walk it always feels so nice,
and when we talk it seems like paradise.
Denis Denis I'm so in love with you.
You're my king and I'm in heaven
every time I look at you!
When you smile it's like a dream...
And I'm so lucky 'cause I found a boy like you!
(Denis Denis, oh won't you hold me tight?
Denis Denis, please can we kiss all night?
Denis Denis, I'm so in love with you.)
Denis Denis, avec tes yeux si bleux,
(With your eyes so blue,)
Denis Denis, moi j'ai flashe a nous deux.
(I'm always thinking about us.)
Denis Denis, un grand baiser d'eternite.
(One deep kiss that will last for ever.)
Denis Denis, je suis si folle de toi.
(I'm so crazy about you.)
Denis Denis, oh embrasse-moi ce soir.
(Please kiss me tonight.)
Denis Denis, un grand baiser d'eternite.
(One deep kiss that will last all night.)

 

I think we have reached the point of fundamental disagreement.

I think people have a choice in every situation you describe - and everyone can do what they want if they want it hard enough.

You don't. You seem to think that it's ok to feel sorry for yourself becuase you were dealt a bad hand. I don't.

As far as unions are concerned, well lawyers 4u seem to have taken the real mantle there in workplace safety and do you genuinely believe we'll see 5 year olds working in sweat shops again in this country.......even if we did there would be moral outcry so the need for a union to protect the 5 year olds from exploitation....give me a break.


I'm in a situation now where I may well have to take a 50% pay cut. Do I bleat. No I crack on. That's life. Sink or Swim.

 

Ergo....SOCIALIST!

There are plenty out there, just not at Westminster!

 

sorry silly answer's not allowed? I just remember the old phrase of **** rolls down hill when talking about government polices. I do not think this current shower has done anything for me that has a positive effect on my life. We live in a country where the basic wage is that enticing you are better off with a 'bad back' playing the system than 40 hours graft in a mundane factory job. If your under 25 as a whole your a bit fecked.