Labour anti semitism

Whenever I try and teach it (it's not actually a topic that I teach and I don't profess to know it all but it's something that kids ask about ok history lessons and can't be ignored) I show them this image.

I give them a chance to look at it and draw their own conclusions along with other evidence and decide who's side they're on. I don't mind which side they chose and it's not really a decision I'm allowed to force. But when they decide that Israel is wrong do I call them anti semites and report them for being racists or radicals? No, because they are not saying anything that doesn't have a basis in evidence and if the politicians are doing the same, taking a side that they believe is right then that's not anti Semitic either. Unless as you say, to be an anti semite needs to be redifined as someone who dislikes the Israeli policies in which case it shouldn't be a pejorative term.

I think as most people on this thread are rightly saying. It's an attack by the press and an excuse used by the Blairites, together, to put pressure on Corbyn.

 

Unfortunately the Labour Party is completely dead leaving these psychos to do exactly as they please, badly

 

I don't think the narrow corridor, late at night thing should prevent these things from being reported properly. Take it to the authorities and make your accusation of what was said. See if they'll stand by what they said, or if they lie and state that they didn't. At the very least it must be challenged through the proper channels. Failing that, leak it out through the media and lets have some names of who is doing it.

 

I completely agree that the US and UK passivity to hold Israel to account for discriminating and stealing land from the Palestinians is outrageous.

But then we have inherent biases and how political machinery creates illusion of truths to distort and sway and deny and deflect.

If a black person is racially abused, they should be listened too. When a woman is abused based on her gender, she should be listened to. When someone sexuality is used against them, they should be listened to. When a Jewish person reports being abused by a party member through official channels, and the person who carried out the abuse is still in the party nearly a year later and no investigation was conducted... I find that really hard to understand or explain. Maybe one to put to a group of unbiased children who can see through bias and supposition.

 

Plenty of views and info on this thread

http://barnsleyfc.org.uk/threads/labour-party-mp-leavers.276807/page-5#post-2251444

 

because corbyn had the audacity to critisize the israelis for killing palestinians in their own land...

 

I really dislike religion so much arguing over so much nonsense.

 

Ma

imagine if any of it was real

 

It's quite simple really, Corbyn has criticised Israel and supported Palestine, so there has been a concerted effort - no doubt supported by Israel - to discredit Corbyn and control the narrative.

Primarily this has been done by equating criticism of Israel with racism against all Jews, and has been made easier by the fact that a lot of those people who do criticise Israel are anti-Semitic. Unfortunately, this means that any reasonable criticism is tarred by the same brush. It's also the case that a lot of events to support Palestine attended by Corbyn have also been attended by actual anti-Semites, and so there's a convenient narrative of guilt by association being perpetuated by people like Rachel Riley and others.

This has been further underpinned by the fact that there are tolls on the internet who will spout racism for laughs. This is particularly evident in the case of Luciana Berger. However, I'm fairly certain that every female politician will have received some measure of abuse on Twitter, because that's how Twitter works, and trying to present it as an issue with the Labour party is rather disingenuous. The local party leader who was leading the non-confidence vote against Berger, Alex Scott-Samuel, is in fact Jewish himself. This hasn't been mentioned, and in retrospect, wasn't he completely right to lead a no-confidence vote against somebody who was critical of the party leader and willing to jump ship? Wasn't that in the best interest of his Labour party members?

I am not a Corbyn supporter or Labour voter, but it is quite obvious what is happening, and it's very worrying. There's a distinct threat to our democracy by these deliberate smears. It's the same tactics that won Trump the election.

 

If you are non religious you are still a Jew because of your parentage. Just like I'm white because of mine.

 

Even if you're not from an Israeli / Jewish ethnic background? What if your parents were first generation Chinese immigrants in Peru that were Christian - Jewish converts a day before your birth and you renounce your religion. Still a Jew?

I understand that in terms of most jews, race and religion are intertwined. But this is not always the case surely? I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I think this is why there is a separate term of anti semitism rather than just racism.

 

There is truth in some of the aspects you've said. And you're right, there will be groups who latch onto something to discredit a group or person they don't like. And you're right, there are numerous pro Palestinian events that have been attended by hardliners, John McDonnell included, that can perpetuate that the party is anti-Semitic. Withstanding all that though, how can it be described when Jewish woman in particular are being bullied and abused, online, in their constituencies and in the corridors of their offices, and reported incidents aren't being looked into?

And if it were a case that an MP refuses to follow the party whip, Corbyn would have been expelled plenty of times down the years!

Within parties, Westminster and the various organisations and support groups that carry out the heavy lifting for the MPS, there is sexism, homophobia, antisemitism and racism. It crosses benches and divides. But when it occurs it should be resolved and stopped. This hasn't occurred in labour ranks and why it continues to be easy low hanging fruit for the tories. Corbyn only has himself to blame for abdicating responsibility.

 

From Tom Bowers biography
www.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-6712927%2FBlatantly-anti-Semitic-Thats-Britains-senior-Jews-called-Team-Corbyn.html&psig=AOvVaw1kQ8jDLdQNThMWm9v7pSFe&ust=1550844633185774

If the link works..

Bowers normally on the money factually however without reading the full extracts its difficult to see how much it has been embellished to sell a few tabloids.

Naturally, i expect loads of people to say its all lies. A fair few of them without giving the article a read.

 

Whenever I hear people defending Israeli government actions re: the Palestinians I always ask the same question.

If the roles were reversed who would sit and condone the Israeli people being treated in the same way they treat the Palestinians?

Nobody would, and rightly so.

 

Anti Semitism has nothing to do with with Israel and never has. The Semite is an ancient word to describe people of the Jewish faith. Similarly you can describe people as Gentile,Muslim Viking, etc. What anti-semitism is like for those who suffer it is just the same as English people who are called Paki,Wog,******,Gypo. What anti-semitism does is label all people of jewish origin the same. It labels and stereotypes them, ie, rich, fat,greedy, etc,in much the same way that was used in 1930s Germany.
Q. Would you like me to label all you White, Barnsley folk as Lazy,stupid,ignorant,racist ********? Some are,but not all,so how would you like to be thought so?
In the UK there are 450 thousand people of Jewish origin, around 250 thosand are considerd observant. These people live in communities in Gateshead, Norh London, and have little interaction with mainstream UK society, there are newer but smaller communities in Devon,Birmingham, Manchester and Canvey Island. There are 3 main sects,the most common you will have heard is Ashkenazi and Seraphadi. These are common European jews who moved to the UK in the 19th and 20th centuries. Believe it or not a lot of observant Jews do not bother about Israel,due to what God said in the Bible. God was unhappy with them and sent them into exile first and then later they were captured as slaves by the Invasion of Persian King Darius. This led to people of Jewish origin moving around the known world, they did not prosletyse until Jesus came along. We have around 200 thousand non observant jews in the UK, ranging from Liberal,mystic to Atheist. Jewish people have been living in Yorkshire since Roman times, and then jewish migration increased post Norman invasion.
So can you all shut the **** about Israel,what the government there happens to do is not the responsibility of an individual in the rest of the world. Nor should they be held accountable for it,if you met many jews they would probably agree with you. The majority of the population of Israel is Liberal Atheist, they want a 2 state solution. It's not helped by a Parliament that is comprised of diverse minority groups elected by Proportional representation. Also the massive Arms donations from the US government and lobbying from Fundamentalist Christians around the world ,who believe if armageddon happens, then Christ will return.
I'm not an observant or Liberal Jew, in the last couple of years I myself have had online abuse by Corbyn lovers. The abuse in London that some jews get is horrific, the abuse that labour politicians who are jewish receive is horrific. It's not smears funded by some secretive World Jewry conspiracy,it's real.
My Father and his Father were professional soldiers and fought for you all in many wars,including the 2nd World War. It was hoped that it would put an end to all forms of cruelty and abuse of humans because of their identity, whether that was skin colour, faith or no faith, language,ethnicity. The last few years have shown that if I and others do not stand up and be counted ,then the sacrifice of millions of others was in vain. I don't believe it was.

 

Jediism is real my friend may the force be with you

 

Need to be careful about stereotyping here: jewish and money, think adolf had a field day with that one. Personally loathe what the modern state of Israel has become, its decades long subjugation of the palestinians is disgracefully criminal.

 

Please share.

 

What I really don't understand in all of this is the reason behind the anti semitism. I mean I know that sounds stupid, people who are racist, xenophobic, anti semites or anything else don't need a reason to do so they just many times are. But what reason do labour politicians or others have to dislike Jews in particular in this current issue?

Don't interpret this as me trying to pick at your response, I'm not, I'm genuinely trying to understand it as antisemitism and other forms of prejudice is an incomprehensible view to me and most other sensible people so when I read the issues about labour it's not that it's hard to believe because I don't think it's going on but because I don't understand what the possible cause is. Is it because as you say, people are unable of separating Israel from the individual Jew?

But also I don't know of you misinterpreted even my explanation which was aimed at Israel and why people dislike that and considered that an attack on Jews which it most certainly was not. I was trying to explain that many attacks on Israel by labour or JC are construed as anti-Semitic because people jump to the conclusion that they are attacking Jews as a whole rather than the political situation. And to that extent do you think that representation further fuels anti semitism?

 

Kettlewell will be able to answer far better than I can, mine is just an educated guess that could well be wrong. I only know a few jewish people, not many and my wife used to work for a firm that had been predominantly jewish historically, but had been more open in the last decade or so. My perception is that the Jewish people have been stereotyped and persecuted for a considerable time, and I fear there may still be some stigma from the historic persecutions they have dreadfully endured. There seems a rising tide of holocaust deniers, some of Seamus Milnes texts (key adviser to Corbyn and McDonnell) from old guardian articles steer that way though not explicitly. I've no idea why these views took root, I don't know if they are behind the scenes where these views are expressed and encouraged.

Maybe its in relation to the more orthodox way of life and ignorance and a fear through that ignorance. Maybe its some of the practices the most orthodox continue. I genuinely don't know. Perhaps there is lesson when we look at the slurs and smears against muslim people and how if many of the population answered honestly, you may find a range from wariness to hatred against a group that mainstream media has been muddying and attacking for a long time now. Perhaps moderate difference is all enough reason for the intolerant to attack (verbally or otherwise) and fear a group. We have plenty of examples from race, colour, background, religion, sexuality and gender, and that's now, not just from distant history.