Pound has dropped in value

Ian I wasn't being awkward....if it came across that way...I want Scots to stay , but would wish you absolutely all the best if you were to leave . The point I was making was more or less what you said , that NS would not call a referendum unless it felt like a racing cert . As things stand , and judging by Alex Salmond's demeanour I would think that it is off the agenda , at least for the foreseeable future .
NS needs to be very careful about assuming May would scupper it .

 

I voted to leave for none of those reasons , my main concern was for the long term sovereignty of the UK Parliament , and staying out of a Federal State . Tony Benn was clear about those dangers for his whole life ....Jeremy Corbyn has also followed that path , which may explain his lukewarm support for remain .
Staying in the EU to stop the Tories , is only valid if you believe a real opposition can never be mounted .

 

Re: I reckon there will a last minute twist to this tale

Like most migrants to the UK then?

 

But what is the actual percentage? Maybe 5%?

 

People from SE England are subsidising Scotland and paying for your public services (and free prescriptions and tuition fees, which they themselves don't get) and you're calling them parasites?

Utterly bizarre.

 

That's a very narrow blinkered view . It may be the case that the Barnett formula allows Scotland more finance per head than for instance the north of England for the last few years , some would argue that is the result of internal Labour Party politics .
Scotland has more than paid it's way as part of The United Kingdom for 300 years , whether it's been the workers of the mines , shipbuilders , or fishing industry amongst many others , or the brilliance of it's inventors and innovators , and particularly the blood of it's people given in every conflict we have ever fought .
Were it not for successive British Governments failing to invest the billions that it has invested (without hesitation ) in the south of England , Scotland , like ourselves in the north as well as Wales and the Midlands and West country would still be massive contributors to UK Plc .
Scotland owes England nothing , and likewise the other regions of England and Wales owe London nothing , much of London's success ( if that is what it is ) has been built on the backs of the great unwashed outside the M25 .

 

Re: I reckon there will a last minute twist to this tale

So you took advantage of the free movement within Europe. Something my kids won't have

 

Re: I reckon there will a last minute twist to this tale

Currently yes I agree but if the current rate of illegal migrant flow i, into Europe continues at the current rate Europe will be swamped with unskilled workers needing subsistence. Once they get EU documents they will be entitled to come into UK which is what the issue is about for many. NOt racism just the sheer logisticla problem of supporting so many extra people. What is your solution?

 

Re: I reckon there will a last minute twist to this tale

Wht wont they? Many people live work and retire abroad to countries that are not even in the EU. What evidence do you have that your kids will be trapped forever in the UK. If companies abroad want your childs skills or a UK company wants him/her to work overseass the docmentation will still be available to make it happen. It jut means that people cant just decide they might like it better in another country, uo sticks and just turn up expecting benefits etc until they can find a job. Incidentally, even with this 'free movement' we still had to prove we were able to support oursleves and had sufficient income and somewhere to live before we could sta in Italy and get resident permits.

 

Weak pound = expensive imports but exporting is easier so xould help the Trade Gap. However raw materials are dearer so that partially cancels out increased margins for Manufacturing.
Strong pound = cheaper imports and raw materials but makes exported goods more expensive so unless the goods are in demand or you concentrate on a sales drive abroad , again increased margins for manufactures are cancelled out.

Then there is the insanity of economists and economic commentators who think that a weak pound is good in a country that imports far more than it exports.

Of course, an answer to the Trade Gap would be for the British public to buy more goods from UK manufacturers except Manufacturing was decimated by Thatcher who decided the City was the way for Britain to enrich itself. Add to that the headlong rush to outsource production to emerging ceconomies like CHhna . Korea and India by those manufacturers who remained to increase their short term profits , or sell to overseas owners and you have a n even bigger long term problem.
Even in Italy that still has a large manufacturing base- white goods, shoes,fashion, leather goods cars you see labels on many products that say Made in China. The problem extended way beyond manufacturing though with service industries closing contact centres and opening them in India. So, unemployment increases and by making your workforce unemployed you remove your domestic customer base. Add to that increasing retirement age by 4-5 years means you create a backlog of graduates and school leavers who would have got onto the first rung of the careers ladder but now cant because people who would have retired are now having to stay put. These are reasons why austerity does not and cannot work. Protectionism in the form of tariffs fails the working man as there is no counter measure to prevent companies outsourcing labour. On the one hand you have restrictions on free movement of goods but no restrictions on companies free movement of labour/relocating. Keeping prices high does NOT protect jobs or companies as they simply up and leave to countries wher labour is cheap i.e the aforementioned race to the bottom

Yes excessive borrowing and unregulated free market caused the initial problem but Austerity has made it worse. Incidentally, both ideologies came from different Tory governments and in between we had the 'spend spend spend' mentality of the Blair Brown era . Too many politicians and economics advisers are like many modern day football managers who overcomplicate things. We need the equivalent of Heggy to keep it simpler but like football, there is too much greed from those in power for things to change.

Was it Voltaire who said " The best form of government is democracy tempered by assassination"?

Tin hat and flak jacket on.

 

Gloria I think you maybe just a little misguided here. As far as I believe Scotland as part of the Union gets money through the Barnett formula and as such can spend it as it wishes.
So our Scottish Govt run by the SNP has decided to freeze Council Tax, allow for free prescriptions, provide better education for our kids.

Just recently this Tory Govt has intimated that it would like to take the Barnett formula away and deny us of our far superior lifestyle. This news obviously did not go down well at all.

So Gloria what you got to say now. Maybe your post was more Utterly Bizarre than mine.

 

what someone may ask in this instance then is why are Scotland able to freeze Council Tax, allow for free prescriptions, provide better education for kids and most of the UK cant.... is the Barnett formula overly weighted in favour of the Scottish?

you mentioned a far superior lifestyle and yet there's a minority still wanting to leave... id love a taste of those benefits!!

 

I have kept in touch with this debate and have found it interesting, but I have kept clear partly because I thought that those contributing had a far clearer understanding of the issues than I do. However, this post has convinced me that I now have a worthwhile contribution to make.

It has been said that the high vale of the pound makes a contribution to low and stable inflation. Whether that is good news depends upon whether you are older and your income is fixed, or whether you are young and adaptable, have high mortgage debt and are climbing the ladder in your chosen profession. I remember a time when I was in the later category, but sadly I am now in the former. The baby boom generation is now mostly in the same position as I am, and they will punish any government who lets inflation get out of hand. It is one thing that we cannot find a decent interest rate for our savings, but it is going to be a very different reaction to watching our savings disappear down the toilet because of inflation.

It is true that Thatcher destroyed the country's mining and manufacturing base, and at the time, I was absolutely incandescent with rage about it. The trouble is that any government that tries to argue against basic economics is trying to row a boat up-stream. Manufacturing must be done in the place that is economically the best place and cheapest place to do so (differential advantage). At the time, that place was China, but now, even China cannot compete with other economies and it is allowing some manufacturing to be done in even cheaper places. The rich economies like Britain need to invest in education in order to produce the minds that can do the jobs that these poor economies just can not do, and they need to invest in capital intensive economic areas where poor economies cannot compete because of lack of capital. The North of England should not be looking for hand outs. It must be able to stand on its own feet and investment is simply wasted if it does not do that.

I know that I will sound like a Conservative party supporter, when I am proud to say that I have never voted for them, but I do agree that my generation needs to pay down its debts. This has been termed as austerity, and if that is what we must call it, then so be it. Those debts were built up because of a collapse in the banking system, which was not my fault, but if the government had not supported the banks, the economy would have ground to a halt and I would have lost my life savings, so I supported the actions at the time. And let us also remember that it was the lax controls on the banking system that the labour party brought in that allowed the banks to make all those bad loans. Whoever is blamed for the crisis is not important now. The fact is that we have this debt and if it is not paid off by our generation, the loan interest and the capital will have to be paid off by the next through higher taxes. It makes me very sad that my daughter will be having to pay down my debt, and that is why I supported the need for austerity.

But that it not the biggest problem for the British economy. The biggest problem is that the baby boom generation are now getting old. Contrary to the understanding of most, current pensions and NHS costs are not paid from PAYE and NI deductions in the past. Those deductions were used to pay for the pensions and NHS costs of our parents and grandparents. Our costs are being paid for by our children and grandchildren and the big problem is, because of the pill, that we did not have the number of children that we needed to have in order to support those costs as we ourselves got older. That and the fact that the costs of caring for the elderly have increased exponentially. So we need more people in our economy to pay their taxes so that we can afford the aging costs of the baby boom generation. And where should we get those younger people from. In some cases, young people with the skills that we are in desperate need of, in other cases young people who are prepared to do the jobs that our young people think are beneath them. That is my understanding of why we need to import people into our country, and that is my understanding of why young people will continue to come into our country even after we leave the EU. The free movement of labour was a smokescreen invented by UKIP because they knew it was a vote winner. BOOM

 

HaHa Maybe we would prefer to keep our far superior lifestyle to ourselves and perhaps improve upon it without you English holding us back.

On a serious note Pompey I've no idea as to why the rest of the UK cannot also freeze council tax and have free prescriptions. This is possibly something you could take up with your MP.

Possibly no profit to be had with this scheme so obviously it would be of no interest to any right wing Tory Govt.

 

And those lax controls on banking let the banks in Ireland, Iceland, USA and other parts of the world make exactly the same mistakes at the same time . If Labour hadn't let the British banks play the same games they'd have been accused of preventing innovation and other things until the banks got their own way.

Its one of the big ironies of the Brexit vote that pensioners (who need an increasing number of young working migrants to pay tax and NI and cheap labour to keep the NHS and care system going) were in general one of the biggest supporters of it and removing migrants. Either they will suffer for it (with reduced income and care levels) or the next generation will through having to work longer and retire with less.

 

You ask a fair number of people and the concensus will always remain around the same point of view. Skilled migrants are always welcomed but the number of unskilled migrants most whom will not have fixed contracts have to be controlled.

Theres only so much work in warehousing and similar areas to go around. Most of,if not an overwhelming majority are on agency books and based on examples of employers ive previously mentioned is very much zero hours at their beck and call. One of them 'employs' 4000 people...overwhelmingly non uk nationals who have little choice but to tolerate conditions or not work cos they know theres three four five more waiting for that shift.

A reduction in the flow of this labour force will have a number of effects. Improvement of working conditions. Wages rise. Job security.

Although somewhat beittling to the roles... ive been there done that... theres only so many box packers and barristas you can have at any one point.

Theres a couple of think tanks including one who is ' left wing' suggesting less migration would improve wages.

This isnt even imvestigating the effect on local communities in terms of schools housing and healthcare.
As a rough example there is c4000 slovaks in sheffield. Somewhere in the region of 2k are in the education system in the city.
Thats enough to fill two schools. Sheffield is a big city. Loads of schools. But not around paige hall. Which is where the majority reside.
Paige hall has always been rough but now its a no go area. I know a few taxi drivers. They refuse to drop off there.
And paige hall isnt an isolated story.
Its happening up and down the country.
Still as long as it doesnt affect the NIMBYs why worry about it?

 

The government could have guaranteed your savings whilst letting the failed institutions you thought were keeping them safe go to the wall

Instead, we created a load of new money to inject liquidity into the banks and as a consequence into the wider economy. The only issue is that this part did not happen.

Austerity is a political choice. Nothing more, nothing less.

The stuff about your daughter paying down your debts is just economic nonsense.

 

This is surely where the divide in haves and have nots will be more obvious.

Those of us born in the fifties mainly had parents who went through the war years rationing and relative austerity until the boom years of the 60s. Many of our parents generation never amassed much wealth due to the post war austerity/rationing etc. Others suffered by losing everything in the bombings of WW2. Others had parents who never earned enough to buy their own home. My wife is a Barnsley girl whose dad was a miner and mum worked in the war years at CEAG. They lived in a rented house and he got chronic rheumatism brought on by working in a 'wet' pit and was put initially on light duties (I think he worked in the wheelhouse) but when I met my wife he was already wheelchair bound, on disability benefits and could not walk at all.

However, there are now quite a few of my generation who are home owners and my daughter who was also able to get onto the housing ladder via, in part the bank of mum and dad. Even those who cannot currently afford to buy will benefit from inheriting property from their parents as part of the so called 'peace dividend' probably enabling them to retire a little earlier. It is those living in council or private rented property whose kids will have the problems of having to work longer. One would hope the country will become prosperous enough to restructure benefits to reduce the state pensionable age once again to a more reasonable level so everyone who has worked for years contributing to society can enjoy a reasonable retirement and not just those fortunate enough to have home owning parents.
It is ludicrous to think of someone like manual workers, teachers doctors and nurses (who wants to be taught by a jaded tired 70 year old) forced to carry on working

 

Anyone who has worked in a bank, for over ten years, in a senior position, should now be in jail.

 

What a ridiculous statement